Transom Failure

[Downhilldai]

Presumably, there's a well forward of the transom for any water in the void to be pumped out from?

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Presumably, there's a well forward of the transom for any water in the void to be pumped out from?

I think all manufacturers don't glass the internal sections without drain holes (I hope), and if they do make compartments, will glass in drains that allow all the water to percolate to the stern at rest, and certainly when under way.

here is a picture of my under deck on my fateful 8.5, looking from the stern up to mid ships where the fuel tank is, as you can see, there are no strengthening ribs .. nothing,.... not what I expected to see for the notional CAT B rating .. as discussed elsewhere.

The two tubes you see were a recommendation I put to the guys at Northcraft some years ago, to facilitate rigging, whether its been done elsewhere I don't know.

But in answer to your question yes, everything drains to the underdeck area at the stern where I have the usual bilge pump. But Valiant dont use a well at the transom, as such, its covered over with a hatch

[Downhilldai]

Why's that cable hanging down in the void?

[ragga]

I have come accross the thread ref 'Northcraft transom failure' and felt a need to point out something that has not been mentioned. Therefore i have joined especially. When visiting the factory to see how my new Northcraft 6.3 was getting on, I happened to see that 8.5m boat in Northcraft while it was in for repair earlier in the year. The 275 Verado was mounted with the cavitation plate about 5 inches above the bottom of the hull and the top engine bolts were only 1 inch from the top of the transom, not the way to install any outboard let alone a 275 Verado. There appeared to a small amount of delamination but hardly 'Transom Failure'.

Anyway i am very happy with my boat which is my second. I had the whole rig fitted by the manufacturer which is probably the safest way to buy a boat.

[Daniel]

slightly different, but something i have often wanted to discuss here.

i beleive the transom is a weak point on almost all ribs. generally very poorly supported. on a "speedy" boat (no tubes) the transom is braced into the whole outfit by the deck, not so on a rib.

many users will have no problem but using a rib hard in big seas (i mean real big seas, not the solent in a F5, thats insignificant) and most importantly making progress, covering miles in these conditions with 200+ Kg of outboard most ribs will see a problem cracking along the transom / deck join. i fit this class of user, and anyone who knows me, i beleiv will agree. when i go ribing, i go whatever, and i cover long distances, driving the boat hard to do so.

various manufacturers try to overcome this by bracing, those i recall:

• tornado & BWM fit grp "knees" (and others i am sure)
• osprey have small moulded cubes on each site (provide cable access and storage)
• avon use s/steel external braces

i have had serious cracking along the deck / transom join on my past 3 ribs, thats a BWM , an Osprey and now the RibTec.

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by ragga

I happened to see that 8.5m boat in Northcraft while it was in for repair earlier in the year.

Good .. and did you approve of the repair, if it were to have been 'your ' boat, or did you not actually see the full extent of the damage? or the attempted repair for that matter ?

Originally Posted by ragga

The 275 Verado was mounted with the cavitation plate about 5 inches above the bottom of the hull .

Correct .. the performance of the hull was absolutley spot on because of this, as per advice from Barrus who supplied the engine, so they should know

Originally Posted by ragga

and the top engine bolts were only 1 inch from the top of the transom, not the way to install any outboard

Really ? how do you arrive at this conclusion? After all when a transom is 2.5 inches thick at the top, you wouldnt think that would be an issue would you?, I have seen plenty of engines mounted this way, including the one I have now, without any problems.

Originally Posted by ragga

There appeared to a small amount of delamination but hardly 'Transom Failure'.

Really ? did you in investigate this fully, in the same way 2 qualified marine surveyors did ? who both came to a different conclusion from you.

Originally Posted by ragga

Anyway i am very happy with my boat which is my second. .

Good .. and so you should be ..if you read my original thread as the OP, you'll see I stated this The 8.5 in question was my 3rd, but there wont be a fourth

[Trickdog]

Bigmuz I think I may have also seen your RIB at Northcraft while visiting manufacturers before ordering my new boat. If it's the one I'm thinking of it was very influential in my purchasing decision... Looked hugely impressive to me! I thought the fitting of the bow locker was a bit shabby but I think Northcraft said that was done by a dealer, not by them? I'll take your word for it that your motor was mounted correctly however I didn't see the transom damage. I note that the other guy with broblems on your transom failure thread also lives in Scotland... Do you know if the same dealer rigged his RIB?

I'm very happy with the quality of my Northcraft and the dealings I have had with the company. Spent a whole Sunday afternoon up there before ordering the boat going through design ideas (I wanted their 'industrial' build with a less 'industrial' look!) and visited the factory a couple of times during the build. Always found them accommodating and very helpful. I've had a problem with the bilge pump and a faulty fuel sender but they were soon sorted. All in all I can't fault either the company or the boat and their prices are extremely competitive.

I have seen a couple of very old Northcraft RIBS in for retubing at their factory. These were boats used commercially and they still looked very sound.

Really sorry to hear that you're disappointed in the 'brand' having owned two Northcraft's previously, but personally I would have no hesitation in buying from them again. I'd be interested to hear what other Northcraft owners think of their boats.

From concept... To completion (almost)... And very pleased!

[stepheneyre]

hi
i have had 3 northcrafts over the past 15+ years and never had any problems with the transom area.
my diving club has had a 5.5mts northcraft from new and is now over 12 years old and the transome area is all fine.
sounds to me its the engine that has been fitted wrong,
was the engine fitted by northcraft or the boat supplier dealer. if at the dealer then its his fault in mounting the engine too high . you do need some clearance to the top bolt look at all the other engines/transome fitting.
you are always better to get the full package direct from the boat bulider this saves money and you know its done right, and if not you can always take it back

lets have some photos of the transome area where the engine is fitted.

the varado is not a easy engine to fit if you speek to the engine makers they will say you need more clearance than i think you have at the top of your transome
as for ep barrus i have had different advise for the same fault from them depending who you talk to , so i lost confidence in them, this was a long time ago though.
you have had other northcraft boats with no problem bet it is with a different engine fitting to transome than your current 1. that should tell you somthing??

I would buy another northcraft any time they have a good reputation
and always put fault,s right if given the chance.

thanks
stephen

[tinker]

As an Electrician I would like to say what I think about this subject, despite the experts opinion being different to mine, I would still like to put my not so well informed opinion to the test and bring more damage to the reputations of the individuals and companies who are involved in this dispute, on second thoughts anyone need a plug changing?

[Bigmuz7]

Look, I dont know how many times I'm going to have to say this, I'm pretty sure peeps will be bored with this discussion now anyway, as it ran its course on another thread, I know I am.

As the owner of the 8.5, Let me make the following points clear


1. I Have had 2 previous Northcraft boats, both of which were perfectly good boats that by and large I had no problems with. The tubes wouldn't hold air for too long but I could live with that. The third boat (8.5) was an excellent hull, probably theee best I've had, and ran superbly with the 275 Verado. So I have plenty of 'good' experiences with Northcraft boats OK?!!!!


2. I ordered a 300HP hull and specified a 275 engine, I am not a marine engineer,designer or an expert, just a customer, the manufacturer knew the spec of the kit and so did the dealer,no alarm bells rang, no body suspected any problems least of all me. All I wanted was what I paid for.


3. Some try to blame the Verado, or the dealer, but the fact is, even if I put 2 x 150 optimaxes on this hull, they would have been over 100 kilos heavier than a single 275 verado. THE TRANSOM COULDNT TAKE THE WEIGHT. Why ?.. design fault, build fault, manufacturing defect, nobody knew, but the dealer and I got left with the problem as Northcraft only offered a derisory repair.


4. Its a pointless exercise comparing other hulls to this one, I dont doubt for a moment, there are countless satisfied customers, I am simply highlighting THIS case.


5. After Northcrafts repair,..2 independant marine surveyors concluded that large scale delamination had occurred in the transom,and their (Northcrafts) repair work, offered no solution what so ever, to the problem ..


SO the boat was clearly a liability in this condition. Northcraft threw some Sikaflex and a bit of stainless capping at it, and thus were satisfied with their work in correcting the problem. By implication, this meant they were happy for me to continue to use, what had become a totally unsafe and unseaworthy craft, and I was not prepared to put the wellbeing of myself, my family or any of my crew into jeopary by continuing to use the boat in this condition. I felt totally let down and frankly quite shocked. Ask yourself the question, you see cracking along the top of your transom, you have over a quarter of a ton of outboard lifting nearly nine metres of hull in front of it, and you're in a force six, do you think some Sikaflex is gonna hold you together ?

All of this after only 80 hrs use, and light use at that. It was only after I wholly rejected this attempted repair by Northcraft did work commence by my dealer to fix what was obviously a structural defect, and the true extent of the delamination became evident. My dealer fixed the craft at his expense, and as I have already said, I appreciated them grasping the nettle and dealing with it.

At this point in time I intended to keep the boat,and when I started the delamination thread on this forum, it was to get some opinions from the highly experienced contributers here, who, true to form, were productive & helpful with their thoughts, for which I was most grateful.. but later, I lost faith in the whole excercise, and just wanted to move on.

As for Northcraft .. judge for yourself, but these were the facts as they were before me. All that remains of the experience is,.. yet again the customer is stuck in the middle, and loses out,.. in time,.. and in money, and patience, and most of all boating, which is what it's all supposed to be about.

Attached is a photo of the stainless right angle they glued ontop of the cracks,.. bear in mind that you could tap either side of these stiffening knees, and it sounded hollow because the glass was not bonded to the transom, in other words, the knees were not attached.

Hopefully some passing Admin will now lock the thread, as I really cant be bothered with this now, as thankfully the boat is fixed & the matter is done and dusted, and I am not really interested in the debate between Northcraft, the dealer, Barrus or whoever, anymore.

Lets move on !

[stepheneyre]

hi
if you start a thread off you should want to finishe it
just cus may b you dont like the comments or agree with them thats no reason to stop
may i ask what the rib cost i estimate about 30k ish any more and somebody is proffiterieng..
looks like the s/s plate has solved the transome area i assume northcraft fitted this. if so then they did sort it out????
still looks like the engine was fitted too high, the lower fins should b just under the hull not 5 " above must have lost a lot of power on the plane
as you said you have had ribs befor this should have been noticed

thanks
stephen

[BruceB]

Originally Posted by stepheneyre

you are always better to get the full package direct from the boat bulider this saves money and you know its done right

Can't agree with this sweeping statement, I saved a packet buying my motor seperately and fitting it myself.
I also can't see the point of this thread, the discussion was done to death on the original thread and there doesn't seem to be anything new on this one..........

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Daniel

slightly different, but something i have often wanted to discuss here.

i beleive the transom is a weak point on almost all ribs. generally very poorly supported. on a "speedy" boat (no tubes) the transom is braced into the whole outfit by the deck, not so on a rib.

many users will have no problem but using a rib hard in big seas (i mean real big seas, not the solent in a F5, thats insignificant) and most importantly making progress, covering miles in these conditions with 200+ Kg of outboard most ribs will see a problem cracking along the transom / deck join. i fit this class of user, and anyone who knows me, i beleiv will agree. when i go ribing, i go whatever, and i cover long distances, driving the boat hard to do so.

various manufacturers try to overcome this by bracing, those i recall:

• tornado & BWM fit grp "knees" (and others i am sure)
• osprey have small moulded cubes on each site (provide cable access and storage)
• avon use s/steel external braces

i have had serious cracking along the deck / transom join on my past 3 ribs, thats a BWM , an Osprey and now the RibTec.

Despite the fact that you have broken a BWM, an Osprey and a Ribtec, I would still offer you a 5 year hull (and transom!) warranty on a BananaShark with any outboard or inboard you would like to fit.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by stepheneyre

still looks like the engine was fitted too high, the lower fins should b just under the hull not 5 " above must have lost a lot of power on the plane
as you said you have had ribs befor this should have been noticed

thanks
stephen

We have fitted a 250 Verado, and we were advised to fit it very high, and the acceleration was incredible with virtually no slip - you could even leave the trim set for normal running and still floor it from a standstill.

[iandl]

Originally Posted by stepheneyre

you are always better to get the full package direct from the boat bulider this saves money and you know its done right, and if not you can always take it back



the varado is not a easy engine to fit if you speek to the engine makers they will say you need more clearance than i think you have at the top of your transome
as for ep

dont agree here .....Verado cannot be installed by the boat builder unless he is a certified mercury dealer which FYM are in big muz's case.......they need to be switched on by laptop once installed. looking at Northcraft's website there is no mention of them being merc dealers, suzuki yes merc no.

you also mentioned 'if not you can always take it back' ........isnt that what he did ....if i spent what Big Muz did then i too would have done exactly the same and probobly more for my inconvience ......

Cookee ....the verados are fun aint they


Ian

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by iandl

dont agree here .....Verado cannot be installed by the boat builder unless he is a certified mercury dealer which FYM are in big muz's case.......they need to be switched on by laptop once installed. looking at Northcraft's website there is no mention of them being merc dealers, suzuki yes merc no.

you also mentioned 'if not you can always take it back' ........isnt that what he did ....if i spent what Big Muz did then i too would have done exactly the same and probobly more for my inconvience ......

Cookee ....the verados are fun aint they


Ian

I hate to disagree with you, but you're wrong!

Manufacturers can fit Verados without being regular dealers - in fact we are an "OEM" dealer and don't have the computer to set them up - we fit everything and take the boat to a Verado dealer to have them do the PDI and set it up.

The thing to remember here is that the builder will fir the engine as they see fit and the Mercury dealer probably won't even go out in the boat, but just get it working.

Yes verado's are a lot of fun, and I was sorry to see our 250 go!

[Trickdog]

I know this thread's been done to death now, but I just had to post this impressive piece of engineering by Northcraft. Guess it saves having to buy a seperate boat and tow vehicle! Rigid Inflatable Landrover anyone?!

http://www.capetocape.org.uk/

[chewy]

Any photos of the bad repair that they carried out?

I emailed them about a boat and never heard a sniff back!

[Bigmuz7]

Originally Posted by chewy

Any photos of the bad repair that they carried out?

I emailed them about a boat and never heard a sniff back!

Yes I posted them on another thread, but they should really be here. Remember, the 2 triangular knees were coming away from the transom, as confirmed by two independant surveyors, and the front edge of the transom on the top side was all burst due to the delamination. You could tap around the flow coat either side of each knee, and there was considerable boss areas either side. Northcrafts answer was to sikaflex some right angle stainless, over the splits on the top edge of the transom, with two straps coming down onto the fronts of the knees, these had a small bolt screwed into the knee with a black cap over them. It has got to be the most ill thought, inefective and botched repair I've ever seen. They didnt even cut the stainless cleanly, it had ragged edges at either end on the inside.

[Laker]

I know this is an elderly thread but I am considering a Valiant 570 - are you still pleased with the boat?