Unfortunate incident

[Siochair]

Two women rescued after falling from boat into the Menai Strait during Rhys Meirion's Lap of Wales - Daily Post

Just heard of the above. Is it anyone on here? Thankfully it appears there was no serious injuries.

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Only last week my parents said its just a matter of time before one of the rib tour boats has an accident.

A "freak" wave comment always makes me suspicious. All waves are different. You don't fall in from a jockey seat if holding on and the skipper in control. Two went in, so is guess they were at pretty high speed.

They're circling each other and playing in each others wake all day long and in some fairly choppy/rough weather sometimes. Only takes one wrong turn, engine or steering fail and they'll collide.

The big black sea wake one only last week went in to the back of a wave in a following sea when fully loaded and completely "stuffed" to a stand still.

[kerny]

When you go on thrill rides you have got to accept that there are risks the accident at Alton Towers proves just that. Luckily this time no one was hurt. Shit happens.

[whackywoody]

Passengers must sign an acknowledgement form when they board these boats I assume but as kerny stated everything has risks. I have not had a problem with the rib ride boats but the skipper of big black Sea wake boat came blasting past me and then turned hard to starboard right into my passage causing me to take emergency evasive action and was witnessed by several ribs who were travelling in transit with me - what a t*t!

[jshbrdall]

Accidents happen. Luckily not as bad as one of my callouts. We had to rescue an upturned cabin adventure rib and the skipper and one crew died......

[Jim Robinson]

Not commenting on the incident as I know nothing of it but if you go on a thrilling ride you expect a thrill, if it is mundane you'll complain,difficult for a skipper to judge where the line stops every trip is different, if you're not holding on as tight as the previous customers and the wave is slightly higher than last time who is responsible?

[scar]

The Skipper is always responsible, that is why he is the Skipper.

[Chris Caton]

considering the numbers of hours the various rib ride boats do on The Menai over the course of a season I think they do an excellent job, I'm sure if there was a problem with the operations the local Coastguard and Harbour Authority would be making comments to the powers that be!

[ShinyShoe]

Looks like CHIRP has reported some very brief details of the circumstances of this incident:

https://s5.newzapp.co.uk/i/23592/nz-.../MFB/MFB41.pdf

- Manual Lifejackets!
- Rear seat mentioned but detail not provided - I've always though rear benches looked risky to me. They remind me of travelling on the back seat of a bus going round corners and bumps at speed where if you were on the inside you were lucky not to have 5 people leaning on you...
- Boat hooked (so not a freak wave)
- Suspected dislocated shoulder (CHIRP does such a thorough job of investigating you have no idea if that was the case!)

For some reason the presence of a film boat seems to have upset CHIRP.

Other than re-linking to the Milly report I'm not sure what else we are supposed to gleam from the CHIRP report. Is there a fundamental problem with rear bench seats? Was there actually an issue with Manual LJs.

[willk]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

For some reason the presence of a film boat seems to have upset CHIRP.

Other than re-linking to the Milly report I'm not sure what else we are supposed to gleam from the CHIRP report. Is there a fundamental problem with rear bench seats? Was there actually an issue with Manual LJs.

CHIRP seemed to want to place some responsibility on the Film Company for the activities/safety. My (limited) experience of film companies is that their employees have ABSOLUTELY no concern for safety or regulations and are ENTIRELY focused on getting good footage. This brings them into direct conflict with a skipper's primary responsibility - safety of passengers and craft. The Film Crew are paying....

Bench seats in planing craft are identified by the Irish MSO as potentially dangerous and must be fitted with lap-belts (themselves potentially dangerous, IMO)

The only issue with manual LJs is that they were being used
Fine for an "abandon ship" scenario, potentially fatal in this sort - high speed ejection.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by willk

CHIRP seemed to want to place some responsibility on the Film Company for the activities/safety.

But nothing in the limited information they published suggested the film boat had caused the accident. Perhaps the hook was influenced by its wake, but there is no explanation given.

My (limited) experience of film companies is that their employees have ABSOLUTELY no concern for safety or regulations and are ENTIRELY focused on getting good footage. This brings them into direct conflict with a skipper's primary responsibility - safety of passengers and craft. The Film Crew are paying....

I have no doubt. But if this is a helicopter flying a film crew I would *EXPECT* the chopper pilot says - no I can't/won't fly under that powerline, bridge, across that live airport runway etc. So actually its up to the skipper to be clear when being booked that the final say on safety is his and if they don't like it they don't go out.

Bench seats in planing craft are identified by the Irish MSO as potentially dangerous and must be fitted with lap-belts (themselves potentially dangerous, IMO)

Someone needs to design a hydrostatic released seatbelt?
But again CHIRP doesn't explain if the passengers were on the bench.

The only issue with manual LJs is that they were being used

Again I don't disagree - but it helps the understanding if the report says "one of the passengers (a) couldn't pull the cord because she dislocated her shoulder on impact or (b) forgot to pull the cord in the panic even though briefed or (c) couldn't remember being briefed. This then becomes useful 'data' for the manual vs auto debate when it arrives here.

You may have gathered CHIRP frustrates me!

[willk]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

You may have gathered CHIRP frustrates me!

I was beginning to form that opinion. I've added it to the (already extensive) list on your file.

It should have been called CHIRM - it's a bit of a chirmer's charter, IMHO.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by willk

It should have been called CHIRM - it's a bit of a chirmer's charter, IMHO.

Totally lost me... is this some weird Irish Phrase?

I think you've mixed my file up - very little frustrates me

[Pikey Dave]

I'd never heard of CHIRP until this thread came along. I had to Google them, I'm still not much wiser. I take it they aren't a statutory body, seem like a bunch of retired, self appointed do gooders to me, am I wrong?


.....sh1t happens.......

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by Pikey Dave

I'd never heard of CHIRP until this thread came along. I had to Google them, I'm still not much wiser. I take it they aren't a statutory body, seem like a bunch of retired, self appointed do gooders to me, am I wrong?

Not as such retired in that they are a Charity that employs staff who are probably no longer actively on the front line. They take reports of aviation and maritime incidents and try to share learning from them. They have no investigational powers AFAIK. So you go out in your rib today at Whitby and a Fishing Boat nearly runs you down. You get annoyed and report it to CHIRP. CHIRP will contact the fishing boat for you and say "Pikey says you nearly ran him over - would you like to comment?". Fishing boat replies and
then CHIRP share the learning. If fishing boat doesn't reply CHIRP *may* deem the incident sufficient to report it to the MCA, which you could of course have done in the first place.

Its hard to say if its a do gooder issue or not. What's not clear is if they would pick up on a trend. Say for instance 5 RIBs next year report loosing a passenger from the back bench, retrieve them, dust them down no serious harm done. Would at some point CHIRP or someone else come forward and say "Back Benches should stop".

I think aircraft crew may use it better (but I could be wrong). So say you go out and your kill cord snaps (no person ends up near the water its just been UV damaged etc) - would you report it? Thought not! Think the aircraft industry would tend to...

[Poly]

Would at some point CHIRP or someone else come forward and say "Back Benches should stop".

That would be a stupid conclusion to reach - not all bench seats, boats and helms are the same - some will be more vulnerable than others. I can tell you I have sat on the bench of a very fast rib which every bit of "natural inclination" suggest should have felt vulnerable but in some fairly tight turns was actually very secure.

I think you can presume that if people were regularly being ejected from benches on ribs there would be some reports of that here. There have actually been more reports of badly fitted jockey seats coming loose.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Poly

That would be a stupid conclusion to reach

But understandable

[Mollers]

A rib is no place for a sofa.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Mollers

A rib is no place for a sofa.

Pffft! Depends on the RIB...

[Mollers]

Originally Posted by willk

Pffft! Depends on the RIB...

Other than on a retirement home taxi.