Upside down Rib

[Sonar]

I have seen a number of self righting systems fitted on a few ribs and a thought came to mind.

If I had one fitted and turned over and the self righting bag did it stuff what would I have lost and would I be able to start the engines again ?

I would loose anything on the deck ( fishing gear ) spare hand held radio.
and may loose most of the items from the Jockey seats.

The fuel may well leak out and the batteries will most probably fall out the top of there boxes.

I don't even know if i would be able to restart the engines .

And so far as electrics go who knows what would never work again.

So the question is what do the forum members think would happen to there vessel in the event of a total turn over situation.???

What would you lose.

Now I have said this i will be looking for way to prevent a loss of anything.

[biffer]

points well made, it's not just about fitting self righting gear, it should be the complete bundle but sadly that very rarely is the case, first to go would be a normal battery installation, battery acid doesn't like salt water, normal rigged electric's suffer but shouldn't stop you starting an outboard by hand if possible, fuel should only leak a bit through the vent, your life jackets would go off if auto, good quality radio's, plotters will fair quite well, the speed at which you right yourself and start going again will have a big affect on how well your boat recovers, i think the biggest thing you will lose is your dignity and the thing you will win is a respect for where you are.
just read this post and it sounds almost intelligent for one of mine, but thats my experience

[PeterM]

If my boat is upside down I wont care - Its all insured .

This in much the same way that you assume you are going to destroy an aircraft in an emergency landing- the last thing I will care about is the boat if its upside down & by default I am in the water.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by PeterM

If my boat is upside down I wont care - Its all insured .

This in much the same way that you assume you are going to destroy an aircraft in an emergency landing- the last thing I will care about is the boat if its upside down & by default I am in the water.

Peter - some of that stuff may be essential to getting the chance to submit the insurance claim yourself (rather than your executors doing it!).

Assuming that your electrics are stuffed, or at least the fixed VHF aerial is gone in the roll, then the handheld you just lost overboard is now vital. If your flares are not secure then your alternative means of signalling distress has just gone. Likewise if you have a PLB in a locker!

Not to worry - with a self righting rig, you may well be able to restart the engines and sheepishly limp home under your own steam, Except the screwdriver you need to drain the carbs and the plug socket were in your toolbox, along with the emergency starting cord!

In reality in conditions remotely likely to flip you there won't be much on deck anyway, it will all bounce and slide about too much. Even without a capsize - someone here recenty reported loosing everything off the deck in a big 'stuff'.

[9D280]

Assuming the contents of your jockey seat are in the seat, as long as you have a catch of some description, they will presumably stay put? If you have a sealed battery (which should be strapped down anyway) then you might get away with it. Most electronics that we use on ribs are 1M submersion proof for half an hour or so, so you might be OK in that department. As an aside, the old Merc Clamshells had a Mercury switch, primarily to stop you starting it in "up" position, but would also would work as an E- stop if it went upside down.

As for the self righting gear, that in untrained hands could potentially be more dangerous than sitting on the upturned hull - Picture the scene - you are trapped under the boat, foot caught in the handrail on the console then suddenly while you try to free yourself, - BANG - off goes the airbag, and you are hauled round unceremoniously quickly, your leg still caught under the handrail on the jockey, which then gets broken by the sudden twisting - it's still caught there, but now it's broken & your head is now dangling in the sea..... Or you get "nutted" unconcious by a passing steering wheel as it self rights, or you get thrown clear as it self rights......

OK, a selection of worst case disaster scenarios, but I would suggest that if you fit one of these things, go get trained on surviving it first! Safety gear is only useful if you are fully trained in it's use! (e.g. someone using a water extinguisher on a fuel fire will just make the problem 100 times worse.......)

[Sonar]

Originally Posted by 9D280

Assuming the contents of your jockey seat are in the seat, as long as you have a catch of some description, they will presumably stay put? If you have a sealed battery (which should be strapped down anyway) then you might get away with it. Most electronics that we use on ribs are 1M submersion proof for half an hour or so, so you might be OK in that department. As an aside, the old Merc Clamshells had a Mercury switch, primarily to stop you starting it in "up" position, but would also would work as an E- stop if it went upside down.

As for the self righting gear, that in untrained hands could potentially be more dangerous than sitting on the upturned hull - Picture the scene - you are trapped under the boat, foot caught in the handrail on the console then suddenly while you try to free yourself, - BANG - off goes the airbag, and you are hauled round unceremoniously quickly, your leg still caught under the handrail on the jockey, which then gets broken by the sudden twisting - it's still caught there, but now it's broken & your head is now dangling in the sea..... Or you get "nutted" unconcious by a passing steering wheel as it self rights, or you get thrown clear as it self rights......

OK, a selection of worst case disaster scenarios, but I would suggest that if you fit one of these things, go get trained on surviving it first! Safety gear is only useful if you are fully trained in it's use! (e.g. someone using a water extinguisher on a fuel fire will just make the problem 100 times worse.......)

May thanks for the reply and yes I can see what you mean so far as safety goes.

I will not be getting a self righting system .
As you also say quite a number of items would have to be changed on my rib in order to make self righting a viable prospect.

The rib i have is 1998 so a lot of items would need attention.

However 11 miles out into the North sea I guess i will be looking at other survival solutions
in respect of safe waterproof storage.

Many thanks for your valuable input.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Sonar

May thanks for the reply and yes I can see what you mean so far as safety goes.

I will not be getting a self righting system .
As you also say quite a number of items would have to be changed on my rib in order to make self righting a viable prospect.

The rib i have is 1998 so a lot of items would need attention.

However 11 miles out into the North sea I guess i will be looking at other survival solutions
in respect of safe waterproof storage.

Many thanks for your valuable input.

I think you've missed the PLB bulk buy thread but PLB and/or handheld VHF securely on your person would be useful that far out - as not only does it give you a post capsize option it will be useful in the more common accidental ejection scenario.

[Sonar]

Originally Posted by Polwart

I think you've missed the PLB bulk buy thread but PLB and/or handheld VHF securely on your person would be useful that far out - as not only does it give you a post capsize option it will be useful in the more common accidental ejection scenario.

We have an auxiliary VHS that has a clip for a belt on it.
Also a waterproof bag that has a mobile phone.

Also had but not now a hand held gps. Thought that would be of little use to us and sold it.
Well now thinking that was a stupid thing to do I may be able to call for help but where am I ???

So another hand held gps is on the shopping list for this year.

Everything else safety wise is in sealed waterproof bags.

Paperwork well copies of are in laminated plastic.
inc an idiots guide to use the radio inc call helping and boat call signs.
So I guess I am halfway there.
But as always trying to make sure I have safety covered and the event of an accident don't happen.

[m chappelow]

to echo 9d280,a few months ago an rnli atlantic 75 capsized whilst on exercise with a crew member getting trapped in the controls and a decsion was made to right the boat with him still stuck underneath thankfully with only minor injurys but the speed a boat can re right can be violent and he could quite easily have broken his neck ,,,its prudent that everything loose should be secure before for putting to sea in any case in any boat ,,its also suprizing how a secure locker lid when upside down and going through the stress of a capsize can then not be as secure as first thought ,espcialialy with a heavy anchor and chain trying to bust through the hatch .on the engine side unless the engine has mercury capsize switches fitted the upturned engine will suck sea water into the engine until it stops ,,,and it could even cause an hydrolic lockup ,,even a well designed boat such as the atlantic class with inversion proof engines ect it would be taken out of service for a complete survey ..,.most r.i.bs have some sort of A frame,but most people have visions of a capsize out at sea in deep water but imagine the senario of a boat capsizing on say a beach without an A frame trapping the crew between the boat and sea bed with no means of escape

[SPR]

two people can right a rib by human power alone if you know how to do it, the MOD Police used to teach this, but due to H & S and the fact they travel in pairs they banned it.

two ropes - bow and stern crossed with back tubes at one side deflated then a walk up the hull.

demonstrated at a powerboat conference at Port Edgar, before it was banned!

Was quite dramatic when it popped up.

S.

[Resque]

Interesting thread! Do you have videos from it S.?

I saw on youtube some videos of the RNLI who turned a sib... i think its more difficult to turn a rib back...

[JSP]

If I remember right, there's a thread somewhere on here where it was discussed at length.
I think in the end most experienced members agreed that righting an up turned RIB like you would a dinghy/SIB was near impossible.

Myself I couldn't comment as I've never tried it. I did it many years ago with a dinghy with out much fuss.

[SPR]

Originally Posted by Resque

Interesting thread! Do you have videos from it S.?

I saw on youtube some videos of the RNLI who turned a sib... i think its more difficult to turn a rib back...

unfortunately nope it was about 9-10 years ago, but it was a 5.7 metre sea rider, with. 70 or 90 HP dead engine on back.

They took anybody With drysuit out to try it of the pontoons at port Edgar. They said it was there last outing due to h & s.

Do very similar the way the Rnli do there small boats, I don't know if the RNLI deflate one of the tubes at back first. When I saw the mod police do it was thinking clever the way the lowered the pivot point by deflating tubes so boat no longer is sitting level on water, hence aiding the righting.

S.

[Resque]

I guess it was a 5.4 or a 6m Searider... Avon never made 5.7 seariders. Its a clever idea to deflate the tubes! Is there anyone with an SR5.4 who wants to try this :P ??

[Stoo]

Originally Posted by Resque

Interesting thread! Do you have videos from it S.?

There's a little clip here: http://www.ccga12.org/rhiot/ about halfway down the page.

I have a similar self-righting rig on my Hurricane. I have had this very discussion (could I start the boat etc post-capsize) with a couple of the local Coasties. They made the point that regardless of what was lost, or regardless of whether you can get underway or not, you are always going to be better off in an upright, swamped boat, than you are in the water, beside a flipped boat. Especially considering that our water is about 2C in April, and stays really cold until august before it starts cooling off again.

There are two big risks when using this sort of system: One is that the crew might get clobbered by the boat coming over, and secondly, when the boat starts to rise up before flipping, it will act like a sail (presumably it's howling out if you managed to flip the thing in the first place...) and unless the cres is tethered to the boat, it might very well drift away...

I'm happy to say that I have never had to use my self-righting gear!

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Stoo

There are two big risks when using this sort of system: One is that the crew might get clobbered by the boat coming over, and secondly, when the boat starts to rise up before flipping, it will act like a sail (presumably it's howling out if you managed to flip the thing in the first place...) and unless the cres is tethered to the boat, it might very well drift away...

I'm happy to say that I have never had to use my self-righting gear!

You have have a sea anchor fitted in the bow.
The righting system should be manually operated from the stern, this lets the crew deploy the sea anchor make their way to the stern and then activate the righting system.

D-class/ILB1 crews can right their boats without letting the tubes down.