Venturers Search and Rescue

[Tiffy]

Originally Posted by Simon Hawkins

Tiffy

Interesting post you have made. Firstly the RYA. You knock the sylabus, but do you realise that the RNLI use the same sylabus with their own bolt on pieces. This is adopted worldwide.

Secondly your claim On Cowes Inshore Lifeboat. As I said all of this was before my days and therefore cannot comment. Our previous boat was a 7.5 meter tornado with twin outboards on so you must be reffering to that.

Our boat operates 2 fixed VHF radios, together with 2 handhelds. These radios will be monitoring, CH, 0, 16, 67 together with a racing channel for any particular day. I was coxsain of the boat that day and were instructed to contact you buy coastguard, so surely they would of known what channel you were on!

We have good relationships with all of the declared facilities within the solent area and train with them on an regular basis. I have had a discussions with the coxsains of our boat about doing some training with you but unfortunatly they have all said no, for reasons I cannot release on this forum. If you would like to know then please contact me direct so that I may discuss with you.

The RNLI may use the RYA syllabus ,but I note like our IYT Ribmaster
they have bolt on extra,s. Which the RYA would not allow us.

Sorry you will not train with us ; but this is your loss. We have
3 qualified IYT Instuctors . including Rescue Coxswain , Intermediate
and Advanced Power Boating. How many of this grade do you have ?
Do you have all the training aids , sailing dinghies , canoes , Sail Boards
Including Fixed slats to practice on a regular basis ?

Regarding our standing with the Coast Guard among letters received
over the years
J A Douglas Chief Coastguard " May I take the opportunity to thank
the Venturers for all the Assistance they give in search and rescue
in the Solent "

District Officer D E Richards October 1977 I wish to thank you for
the very valuable assistance given to me and the Coastguard service
over the past years , when under the direction of the Coastguard
you have carried out many rescues. With several more similar letters
from the Coastguard over the years. HRH The Prince of Wales who
has been out on our Rescue Ribs , stated " The League of Venturers is an
outstanding young peoples organization which captured my attention
and imagination several years ago. I was impressed by the qualities of
dedication , enthusiasm and sheer professionalism which goes to making
the Venturers such a worthwhile and extraordinary successful rescue
organization.

A citation from the RNLI for the Rescue of the Yacht Fairwind in rough
seas , aground on the rocks of Gurnard Ledge. Each member of the
crew receiving personal letters of congratulation from the Prince.

A Letter of thanks from the RYA on the calm and professional manner
we dealt with the tragic accident to Mr Bontoft off Egypt Point
during a Cowes Torquay Race.

I could go on with the hundreds of letters of thanks from boat
owners we have helped since 1961

I am also quite surprised you call yourself Cowes Inshore "Lifeboat ",
as I understand there was a gentleman agreement voluntary organisations
would not include " Life Boat in the title " It must also confuse the
public when putting money in your collections box,s

Regarding the incidents I do not think it matters what your Rib was
but it was a example of dog in the manger and poor seamanship
Incidentally your spellings as bad as mine

[Tiffy]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Doug - i think it is some sort of SuperNanny sticker chart (or perhaps its like McDonalds staff with a badge).

It a wall chart which marks each section of the IYT Ribmaster
qualifications . After the cadets has passed it a number of times
in different weather conditions.

So there is a record of the cadets progress up to the time he is
ready to take the official IYT Exam.

That calls for hard work and dedication .

So stop being so SARKY .

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Tiffy

Many of our teenagers come from local housing Estates ,

must be criminals then

One boy asked why he joined the Venturers stated
" It keeps me out of trouble and when I am down at the Venturers I
AM SOMEBODY .

yes I noticed you use that quote on your website and the video too - I assume you have had more than one success story in 45 years too!

So why do so many other Adult Rescues services try belittle them ,or spread untrue malicious rumors which dissolve in Mirrors and Smoke.

Actually I suspect that has a lot more to do with your bizzare attitude than the fact that your team are so young, or perhaps things have "moved on" in the last 40 years since you started your organisation.

[chris123]

Originally Posted by Tiffy

The RNLI may use the RYA syllabus ,but I note like our IYT Ribmaster
they have bolt on extra,s. Which the RYA would not allow us.

I don't understand what you mean by this? The RYA has a set syllabus for each training level. If you teach the syllabus and have suitably qualified instructors to assess it, your students can be given the qualification. If you choose to do extra training on specific skills, how can the RYA 'not allow it?'

I am not familiar with IYT qualifications, but I would have thought your volunteers like Matt who wish to pursue a career in UK SAR would be best served with gaining the qualifications most prevalent in the UK?

Chris

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Tiffy

It a wall chart which marks each section of the IYT Ribmaster
qualifications . After the cadets has passed it a number of times
in different weather conditions.

So there is a record of the cadets progress up to the time he is
ready to take the official IYT Exam.

That calls for hard work and dedication .

So stop being so SARKY .

Sorry - I thought it explained the concept pretty well! - especially since I hadn't seen it in action. Personally I am not convinced that a public sticker chart is really the most empowering way to encourage development in young people - but it obviously works for you. Other organisations would achieve the same thing with some sort of "training matix"... ...it was the fact you used "stars" and a "chart" that reminded me very much of potty training my son...

[Matt-V-SAR]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Sorry - I thought it explained the concept pretty well! - especially since I hadn't seen it in action. Personally I am not convinced that a public sticker chart is really the most empowering way to encourage development in young people - but it obviously works for you. Other organisations would achieve the same thing with some sort of "training matix"... ...it was the fact you used "stars" and a "chart" that reminded me very much of potty training my son...

lol yer can see the relevence... however it is in the back of our control room and is actually (believe it or not) a highly affective way, especially if you are tracking the progress of the crew, we used to sign it with signatures rather than stars but people (ok it was me) kept loosing the pen!!!!, anyway the sitckers work for us.

Every unit may have thier different methods of tracking progress, ours is basic, simple and effective.

Not much paperwork for me

Matt

[Jon Brooks]

"Ribmaster" Only in America!!

This thread is getting a tad OTT now IMHO.
Getting far to much into a "he said this, he said that".
Whilst it is not not good for any of those involved to carry on like this, it can only do harm, certain parties are comming out of this worse, again IMHO.

Surley if these guys were/are a sea SAR service and work closely with HMCG, like many others, they would be equipped with CH0 on their VHF's?
That way they, like all the others, would be under the total control of HMCG.

Is there some reason that they are not?

Most that we have supplied radio's to over the years do.

I also think that most vessels that get involved in a rescue at sea get a big thank you.

All IMHO again.

[chris123]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

Surely if these guys were/are a sea SAR service and work closely with HMCG, like many others, they would be equipped with CH0 on their VHF's?
That way they, like all the others, would be under the total control of HMCG.

Is there some reason that they are not?

Judging from the Southampton Daily Echo link posted earlier in this thread, this is something of a bone of contention, specifically that you can't have access to ch0 if you are not a declared asset.

[Jon Brooks]

Originally Posted by chris123

Judging from the Southampton Daily Echo link posted earlier in this thread, this is something of a bone of contention, specifically that you can't have access to ch0 if you are not a declared asset.

Well surely this is and should be correct.
If you are a declared asset then your call outs and or tasking is direct from HMCG then you need ch0.
If you are not declared then you have no need for ch0 as you will not be tasked to job from HMCG, you maybe asked to help but not given jobs to deal with on your own without back up from a declared asset.
All vessels have a duty to assist if asked as I understand it.

The last thing you need is every man and his dog getting on ch0!!

[chris123]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

Well surely this is and should be correct.
If you are a declared asset then your call outs and or tasking is direct from HMCG then you need ch0.

Absolutely, however others disagree:

Originally Posted by Philip Pearce-Smith Daily Echo web page 17/10/07

if we were allowed the use of the Coastguard Emergency Radio frequency channel zero , we would have been immediatly aware of the emergency , and could have voluntered our assistance and a life might have been saved...There is no techical reason why we should not be allowed Channel Zero , as there are non declared organisations who have it.

It would seem to me that Venturers would benefit (both directly and indirectly) from becoming a declared asset - Tiffy's view is that they cannot because they have crew under 17/18. The only similar situation that I know of is Atlantic College in South Wales where the lifeboat is crewed by staff and students. As an RNLI station they are a declared asset, but I don't know if they impose a minimum age on crew members, and if they do whether this is imposed by the MCA or by the RNLI

[Jon Brooks]

There must be some other reason IMHO.

Many lifeguards around the UK use CH0, many of these are under 18!

[J S]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

There must be some other reason IMHO.

Many lifeguards around the UK use CH0, many of these are under 18!

Yes because you can be on the RNLI lifeboats at 17 and use the radio on ch0.

James

[NautiAndNice]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Sorry - I thought it explained the concept pretty well! - especially since I hadn't seen it in action. Personally I am not convinced that a public sticker chart is really the most empowering way to encourage development in young people - but it obviously works for you. Other organisations would achieve the same thing with some sort of "training matix"... ...it was the fact you used "stars" and a "chart" that reminded me very much of potty training my son...

No need to feel left out RYA boys! ... I've attached a template Star Chart for you to stick in the back of your YOUR logbooks ... sorry, but sticky backed plastic not included

[Matt-V-SAR]

Originally Posted by NautiAndNice

No need to feel left out RYA boys! ... I've attached a template Star Chart for you to stick in the back of your YOUR logbooks ... sorry, but sticky backed plastic not included

oh come on now lol


ours at least have the sticky back plastic .

no ours our not as ....um colourful as that

Seriously though, it works, i recomend it! lol

Matt

[Jimbo]

Originally Posted by NautiAndNice

No need to feel left out RYA boys! ... I've attached a template Star Chart for you to stick in the back of your YOUR logbooks ... sorry, but sticky backed plastic not included

Gold stars too?

[Matt-V-SAR]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Gold stars too?

Oh yes!!!

[NautiAndNice]

Originally Posted by Jimbo

Gold stars too?

You betcha... although it's all a little more PC these days...

[simmons0]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

Surley if these guys were/are a sea SAR service and work closely with HMCG, like many others, they would be equipped with CH0 on their VHF's?
That way they, like all the others, would be under the total control of HMCG.

Is there some reason that they are not?
All IMHO again.

Yes, as Matt has said numerous times they have crews under 18 therefore they can not be a declared rescue facility.
If anyone on the crew is under 18 the boat cannot be tasked by the CG, they can only offer assistance.
Imagine if the CG tasked a boat of teenagers to an incident and something went wrong, someone was injured, someone drowned etc, it'd be fairly catastrophic and the responsibility would surely be put on the CG for tasking them in the first place.
H

[Simon Hawkins]

Originally Posted by Tiffy

Sorry you will not train with us ; but this is your loss. We have
3 qualified IYT Instuctors . including Rescue Coxswain , Intermediate
and Advanced Power Boating. How many of this grade do you have ?
Do you have all the training aids , sailing dinghies , canoes , Sail Boards
Including Fixed slats to practice on a regular basis ?

Tiffy. I am not going to get into a tit for tat battle with you on this subject, but for your information we have 4 Advanced Powerboat Instructors, A Boatmaster, A Master of Trinity House Vessell Alert, and a watch officer from P & O, who holds his MCA fast rescue craft certificate. With regards to kit to use we have a good relationship with IYWAC and Hampshire Police marine section, so can use there equipment, plus have various other types of larger vessels we can get out hands on.

As I have said previously I think that you do a good job in educating minors, and keeping them off the streets, and your crews are dedicated. If problems are being illustrated to you on this forum then it may be an area that needs addressing within your organisation. Cowes Inshore Lifeboat has had its problems in the past, but these have nearly all been sorted, via training, and discussions with those people who are responsible for the errors to establish where it went wrong and what could be done in the future to prevent.

With regards to your piece about using the word "lifeboat" Under the SSRO (solent sea rescue organisation) we are allowed to use this word as are other independents in the Solent area, such as Freshwater, Hamble, Sandown.

[Tiffy]

Originally Posted by Jon Brooks

Well surely this is and should be correct.
If you are a declared asset then your call outs and or tasking is direct from HMCG then you need ch0.
If you are not declared then you have no need for ch0 as you will not be tasked to job from HMCG, you maybe asked to help but not given jobs to deal with on your own without back up from a declared asset.
All vessels have a duty to assist if asked as I understand it.

The last thing you need is every man and his dog getting on ch0!!

In The Solent Channel 67 is dedicated to rescue communication , and
we work with the Coastguard on 67. Channel zero would be useful ,
as it would prevent duplication of effort if we were in the loop.
Example a recent pattern search . we were tasked by C.G to assist.
with Lifeboats on 0 and us on 67 did not help communications.
There was a recent tragedy at Lepe Country Park , we had a Rescue
Rib about 2 mins from scene , with Oxygen and Defibrillator. A First
Responder Quad with same ; but first information came from Ambulance 20 mins after Coastguard were informed by 999 call. Ambulance arrived at
wrong location next to our Quad which was looking for Toy Inflatable
with 2 dogs and 2 people drifting out to sea. Had our Operational control
had Channel zero , they could informed our Quad and Rescue Rib the
location