Wanted - Diesel inboard rib

[Fender]

[QUOTE=jwalker;829560] With a bit of forethought in the design of the engine compartment there is no loss of useful space, indeed, a flat engine cover is far more use than the dirty, sandy, salty and oilydrips rear deck of an open outboart rib. No hydraulic steering pipes, no control cables, no fuel tanks, no auxiliary engines, no oil tanks and no grubby engine well. I'm sure there is a few other nos also on some rigs. It sounds like you've not expereinced a modern outboard set-up

With regard to servicing, it's just like a car, engine oil and filter, air filter occasionally and fuel filter occasionally. Outdrive oil change just like the outboard lower unit. That is until anything major requires work, then the fun starts accessing parts

Issues will arise if the boat is kept in the water permanently but that is the case with outboards too. No, when moored a leg will not raise out of the water anything like a outboard, my outboard completely clears the water

With regard to handling, inboard engines are low mounted whereas outboards are high mounted consequently the CG of an inboard boat is considerably lower that an equivalent outboard boat. Noticeably better handling in rough water. And inboard installations are generally heavier and consequently poorer power to weight figures

Mate had a Botnia Targa with twin D4's, away complaining about repairs and maintenance, he sold it and brought a Boston with twin Merc's and now regretting he didn't do the change sooner


Like anything in life - its all about choice and one size never fits all

[Brian]

Good grief!
If Mr. Tidal wants to buy a diesel rib-let him.

[mikehhogg]

inboards generally last twice the life of an outboard, their extra weight and position helps to form a lower center of gravity which gives what most people want "better Sea keeping".they are also more efficient and consume less fuel horsepower for horsepower.The older engines were simple and cheap to service ,the newer I am not so sure about.I have both one is a 6m lencraft with a 115hp yamaha v4. the other a pac 22 with 150hp mermaid. there is no comparison .the yamaha easily burns 100 pounds in a long day the mermaid 100 pounds last a week. the lencraft gets thrown around in a rough sea the pac 22 does not hesitate.there are disadvantages to a big heavy diesel too,but as fuel prices keep on the up Ill keep my diesel.

[Intertidal]

Originally Posted by beamishken

Avoid the merc 1.7 they aren't a great engine & personally I'd want bigger than 130 for an inboard.
Yanmar 4lh @240hp or yanmar 6lp@315hp would be my first choices there are a lot of yamahs diesel powered boats about which uses the same base toyota 4.2 engine as the 6lp but they stopped production about 10 years ago so some parts are hard to find but a good reliable engine all the same. Volvo Kads were ok but personally
I'd want to avoid volvos later offerings just because they are so dealer dependent although a lot of folk speak highly of the d4 & d6 & later d3's
The petrol/diesel debate will rage on & the loss of red may or may not happen post brexit as it was European driven & our govt didnt want it anyway. I own two diesel powered boats a delta rib & a cruiser & love them both but i can also see the benefits of a lightweight petrol outboard for a rib (which I also own) . Sterndrive is imho the only realistic option for a diesel rib as jets are too power hungry & shafts dont suit, drives can be reliable if well looked after and maintained but can also be a maintenance nightmare too.
There is no right or wrong choice its down to personal preference at the end of the day

Thank you, that is really useful info. I also run a couple of hard boats one with twin 6.7l Mechanical Iveco’s and another with 2x250hp Yam OB’s. I was surprised to see such light hp diesel options on the ribs and would feel more comfortable with a little more grunt than the 120 & 130hp options - thanks again.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by jwalker

no fuel tanks, no auxiliary engines,

not trying to stoke the fire but are these differences between equivalent diesel and petrol or in/out?

Outdrive oil change just like the outboard lower unit.

I *thought* the scary bit was the bellows servicing - expensive and if not done catastrophic.

Originally Posted by fender

Mate had a Botnia Targa with twin D4's, away complaining about repairs and maintenance, he sold it and brought a Boston with twin Merc's and now regretting he didn't do the change sooner

is that an in/out issue or a volvo/merc issue, or a botnia/boston layout issue or even a newer/older point.

[Philip Hodson]

What loss of deck space ?
Aft you have the Poop deck, aft of that you have the bathing platform then the
swim ladder & to top it, you have a hot fresh water shower, marvellous!!!!

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Brian

Good grief!
If Mr. Tidal wants to buy a diesel rib-let him.

forum
/ˈfɔːrəm/

1.
a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
"we hope these pages act as a forum for debate"

[jakew009]

Originally Posted by mikehhogg

inboards generally last twice the life of an outboard

I don't know if that is the case in reality. I agree that diesel engine last much longer than petrol ones. I've used plenty of diesel engines with 10,000 plus hours on them.

However, on a boat 99% of the time the engines don't get to anything like these hours. They are knackered way before that because of corrosion, ancillary components failing, the outdrive falling off, the gearbox blowing up, parts being unavailable etc etc.

There are umpteen diesel boats that people have ripped the inboard diesel engines out of and replaced with outboards way before the engines have even got close to wearing out. Normally because they have become uneconomical to fix.

[jakew009]

It's also interesting to note that in the US, where the difference in price between red diesel / road petrol isn't so apparent, the market has almost unanimously voted with it's feet and diesel boats are almost nonexistent and totally undesired. Just look at the 600hp outboard Mercury have just released for evidence of that.

If in the UK, petrol was broadly the same price as diesel, and petrol was available waterside as well as diesel, the situation would be the same.

The only thing that makes diesel attractive in the UK is cheap red diesel, and if that goes, and white diesel becomes £1.50+/lite in marinas as well, the cost argument is null and void...

But: https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news...onfirmed-76826

Looks like red diesel is here to stay for now!

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Fender

Mate had a Botnia Targa...

As I said, most folk who comment negatively haven't actually owned a good diesel rib.

[Fender]

Originally Posted by jwalker

As I said, most folk who comment negatively have actually owned a good diesel rib.

Do you mean haven't had a good diesel RIB

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Poly

not trying to stoke the fire but are these differences between equivalent diesel and petrol or in/out?

I've only ever seen portable tanks for a diesel boat used on a diesel outboard. I've never seen a diesel rib using a portable tank. Doesn't mean they don't exist, of course.

I *thought* the scary bit was the bellows servicing - expensive and if not done catastrophic.

Yeh, that's an interesting one, I've heard the stories too but my boat engine was purchased in year 2003. I changed the bellows once after 9 years because of the stories but it appeared pretty much as new after removal. I don't intend to change it again unless it shows signs of deterioration.

I can only speak of my Volvo but changing the bellows isn't particularly difficult or time consuming, though I guess if you're paying full marine engineer rates it might make one wince.

I've no idea why failures occur so can't really comment about how much of an issue this is in reality.

Outboards suffer from the wet side issues too, leaking lower units, seized hydraulic tilt pump, weeping hydraulic seals, worn pivot bushes etc. Just the harshness of the marine environment.

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Philip Hodson

What loss of deck space ?
Aft you have the Poop deck, aft of that you have the bathing platform then the
swim ladder & to top it, you have a hot fresh water shower, marvellous!!!!

Yup, we have that too. . ...erm, minus the ladder...

[Searider]

Originally Posted by jwalker

I've only ever seen portable tanks for a diesel boat used on a diesel outboard. I've never seen a diesel rib using a portable tank. Doesn't mean they don't exist, of course.


Yeh, that's an interesting one, I've heard the stories too but my boat engine was purchased in year 2003. I changed the bellows once after 9 years because of the stories but it appeared pretty much as new after removal. I don't intend to change it again unless it shows signs of deterioration.

I can only speak of my Volvo but changing the bellows isn't particularly difficult or time consuming, though I guess if you're paying full marine engineer rates it might make one wince.

I've no idea why failures occur so can't really comment about how much of an issue this is in reality.

Outboards suffer from the wet side issues too, leaking lower units, seized hydraulic tilt pump, weeping hydraulic seals, worn pivot bushes etc. Just the harshness of the marine environment.

Outboards do fail:

1. Changed the 2001 150hp Optimax on the boat when at about 900hrs and 13 years old a deal came up on a much newer one. Had a habit of corroding power trim motors when kept afloat. Cost to change was about £4000.

2. Power trim on our 100hp yamaha at work destroyed itself. 2002 engine with 950hrs. Was going to cost "up to" about £3500 to fix it. Replaced engine with a nearly new 115hp Yamaha. Cost to change was £5500.

On the plus side the RIB has flooded twice in my ownership due to batteries going flat one time and not putting the bung in properly. Each time the damage has been a pair of batteries and a day out of service. If i'd done the same with an inboard diesel RIB i'd be looking at potentially complex and expensive engine work which might or might not be covered by insurance.

I like the idea of a diesel boat but having looked for a diesel 6.5m RIB in 2004, couldn't find anything suitable and was forced to go outboard. For me it turned out to be the better option.
A colleague has a 6.5m Solent with a KAD32 and that's a good package however...

[jwalker]

Originally Posted by Searider

On the plus side the RIB has flooded twice in my ownership due to batteries going flat one time and not putting the bung in properly. Each time the damage has been a pair of batteries and a day out of service. If i'd done the same with an inboard diesel RIB i'd be looking at potentially complex and expensive engine work which might or might not be covered by insurance.

A well designed engine compartment will prevent both the engines and the batteries getting wet so it would be more of a design issue than a diesel engine fitment issue.

A colleague has a 6.5m Solent with a KAD32 and that's a good package however...

It's good to know that but I'm a little surprised the stern of a 6.5 Solent has enough volume to support the KAD. Good info for the OP I guess.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by jwalker

I've only ever seen portable tanks for a diesel boat used on a diesel outboard. I've never seen a diesel rib using a portable tank. Doesn't mean they don't exist, of course.

Yeah, but you do get outboard boats that only use internal tanks too.

Originally Posted by jakew009

If in the UK, petrol was broadly the same price as diesel, and petrol was available waterside as well as diesel, the situation would be the same.

maybe - except we still use it on the road in many cases, and yachts which aren’t exactly gas guzzlers are almost exclusively diesel

The only thing that makes diesel attractive in the UK is cheap red diesel, and if that goes, and white diesel becomes £1.50+/lite in marinas as well, the cost argument is null and void...

oh, and the rather crucial dockside refuelling issue - which makes comparisons to the US completely pointless

[GuyC]

For the Outer Hebrides, the column on the left is where you can get diesel by hose, the column on the right is where you can get petrol. I stole the lists from an earlier post.

Brevig (Broad Bay)
Stornoway
Carloway
Kirkibost
Miavaig
Scalpay
Stockinish
Leverburgh
Berneray
Griminish
Kallin
Ludag
Eriskay
Vatersay
North Bay, Barra

[willk]

Originally Posted by GuyC

For the Outer Hebrides, the column on the left is where you can get diesel by hose, the column on the right is where you can get petrol. I stole the lists from an earlier post.

Brevig (Broad Bay)
Stornoway
Carloway
Kirkibost
Miavaig
Scalpay
Stockinish
Leverburgh
Berneray
Griminish
Kallin
Ludag
Eriskay
Vatersay
North Bay, Barra

The right column....

I remember handballing petrol into my Land Rover in Donegal - I dunno, maybe 300L(?) to load into a RIB that was heading home to Leverburg. They even scabbed a coupla spare cans off me as "it was easier here than there".

[jakew009]

Originally Posted by Poly

oh, and the rather crucial dockside refuelling issue - which makes comparisons to the US completely pointless

If marinas were forced to have white diesel tanks as well as red diesel tanks, white diesel would become just as scarce as petrol wouldn’t it.

Maybe that’s one of the reasons they decided not to enforce the change yet?

[mikehhogg]

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news...onfirmed-76826

or maybe the government are telling Porkies