Watch out for TIMBER!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Haverner has already posted this with more information - in a helpful post that john has stickied. Cod - why did you emphasise LEGAL and ANY in caps? As I understand it SOLAS does require all vessels to report potential hazards so whats the problem? Stop winging and let the MCA and the appointed contractors get on with the task of alerting shipping to and clearing the hazard from the sea and beaches.

It's not the fact it's a hazard - it's the authorities trying to stamp their authority on the whole thing. They would rather the stuff rot or be swept around the seas than people get something for nothing. For some reason the government hates it when people get something for free - maybe it's cos it's not taxed..........

I would far rather see local people benefit from this loss than have to stump up yet more taxes to clean it all up!!!

[Limey Linda]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I would far rather see local people benefit from this loss than have to stump up yet more taxes to clean it all up!!!

Well done Codders, first sensible thing you have posted this year.

[blinddog]

If anybody took some of the wood.
How do you prove the wood was from the ship,
OK it may be of the type of wood but unless it has a serial number on it, hard to prove,
Remember it has to proved beyond all reasonable dought under UK law,

[Poly]

Originally Posted by codprawn

I would far rather see local people benefit from this loss than have to stump up yet more taxes to clean it all up!!!

we will not be paying. the cost of clear up is met by the ship owners/insurers.

[SeaSkills]

Originally Posted by Polwart

we will not be paying. the cost of clear up is met by the ship owners/insurers.

Hmmm, maybe. But if they've insured with the same company as I do, I'll bet my premiums will be moving the wrong way again

[Poly]

Originally Posted by SeaSkills

Hmmm, maybe. But if they've insured with the same company as I do, I'll bet my premiums will be moving the wrong way again

I suspect the cost of the "clear up" will be lost in the noise of the insurance claim compared to the cost of the loss of the vessel and the cargo.

[havener]

1. This has nothing to do with the government. The timber is now the property of the insurers, as the vessel has been deemed to be a total constructive loss, as would your car be had that been stolen / lost and recovered. Would you be happy for insurance premiums to rocket is no lost goods were recovered?

2. The contractors have been appointed to collect the timber for one simple reason - to ask the public to do it would be dangerous, and few people are equipped for handling large baulks of timber either at sea or on the coastline.

3. It is, I suspect, highly unlikely that you would be asked to return, or probably pay for, any timber you recovered. It would have little or no economic value for resale. I doubt whether the tax on the miniscule amount someone could recover would be an issue.

4. Ships are rarely insured with a single insurer. There will be a lead insurer, with the rest spread across Lloyds open market or whichever country the vessel is insured with. Compared to the vessel loss, in this case the cargo loss will be a tiny percentage. The rescue tug operation won't have been cheap either.... This will affect the owners next insurance bill, and shipping insurance in general - not your car policy (or if it does, by about 1p).

They would rather the stuff rot or be swept around the seas

And damage / sink other vessels? B*llocks.

I dislike most governments as much as anyone else - and trust me, the French one ain't much better - but this is not about government. It is about safely recovering dangerous objects at sea, and ensuring that further vessels are not injured by it.

[codprawn]

The quote from the MCA is

"We are determined not to have a repeat of the Napoli."

What harm are these people doing? Yes they may be putting their lives in danger but that is their CHOICE - or used to be when you were allowed to think for yourself!!!

They aren't even breaking the law if they declare what they find.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by codprawn

They aren't even breaking the law if they declare what they find.

Quite might be fun to recover one small plank, take it home and inform the Receiver. They can then come and collect it, having paid your salvage claim

Pete

[havener]

Originally Posted by codprawn

The quote from the MCA is

"We are determined not to have a repeat of the Napoli."

What harm are these people doing? Yes they may be putting their lives in danger but that is their CHOICE - or used to be when you were allowed to think for yourself!!!

They aren't even breaking the law if they declare what they find.

EXACTLY! IF they declare what they find. Declarations from the Napoli were a very tiny percentage of what is known to have come ashore and been taken. To put it bluntly, it was stolen.

The Napoli was different in that the cargo was high value, in many cases only slightly devalued by its condition, and easy to "recover" (nick). I'd be interested to know if someone taking a new BMW motorcycle, owned at the time by BMW as the insurers had not yet settled, and failing to report this, doesn't fit a definition of harm, what does?

Perhaps I should come round and pinch the car from your drive on the grounds I found it there?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Quite might be fun to recover one small plank, take it home and inform the Receiver. They can then come and collect it, having paid your salvage claim

thats not my understanding of the process. you would be required to deliver the wreck to the reciever (if so requested) and she would then decide what salvage (if any) you were entitled to.

As I understand it the reciever (or her agents) is entitled to require that wreck is delivered to or handed over to her or her agents including using force to achieve that. She has apppointed the local police as her agents. therefore they may be able to prevent you from removing wreck from beaches etc.

Wrongfully carrying away wreck is an offence (which I think is different from the offence of conceeling (failing to declare) wreck). Likewise hindering or impeding the recovery of wreck is an offence - presumably that includes an individual taking it on themselves to recover wreck where a salvor has been contracted.

those wishing to get a more definitive statement of the law than cod's

Originally Posted by codprawn

They aren't even breaking the law if they declare what they find.

might want to read the merchant shipping act

[ian parkes]

I just wish they would do as much to prevent people leaving their rubbish on the beaches .

Pick up a piece of driftwood and they threaten to nail you .

Leave a bag of rubbish dirty nappies and dog turds etc on the beach and nothing is done .

I love this country

[codprawn]

There were no prosecutions over the removing of the cargo of the Napoli

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../napoli126.xml

"At present, we do not have any plans for prosecutions in relation to Napoli recoveries."

Then again who knows with this government.............

[MarkWildey]

Anyone seem the timber on the Dorset coast, could so with some!

[Pete7]

looks like Worthing beach is the place to be according to the 10pm news tonight.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7197667.stm

Pete

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Pete7

looks like Worthing beach is the place to be according to the 10pm news tonight.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7197667.stm

Pete

Watch out for the Quicksilver towing planks in the news reports

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Watch out for the Quicksilver towing planks in the news reports

Is that the one that was towing some very tall bloke with 33' long skis???

[John Kennett]

It wasn't me, OK? I wasn't there. You didn't see me!

John

[havener]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

It wasn't me, OK? I wasn't there. You didn't see me!

John

However, John's shed can now be seen from space...