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10 November 2010, 17:00
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#1
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: stramash
Make: Tornado
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 90
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,090
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Welding stainless
All I've ever welded was mild/hard steel with a stick, from 10 mm down to about exhaust type thickness, whereafter I switch to gas, ... never having welded stainless, a fareing on the RIB needs a couple of straps re attached, can I just gas weld it like I'm used to doing with some gash stainless lying about, or will I need to gets me some funny rods and do it with the stick ? The straps are only about 3 mm thick going back onto some tube
ps will I get heat discolouration etc ?
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10 November 2010, 17:10
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#2
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Member
Country: France
Town: Huisnes sur Mer
Boat name: Raufoss
Make: Avon
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury 50
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 789
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How thick is the tube?
The last thing you want is to blow holes in it with the arc welder!
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C'est pas l'homme qui prend la mer, c'est la mer qui prend l'homme....
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10 November 2010, 17:52
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#3
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,163
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You can stick (arc) weld stainless with ordinary rods but the weld will rust. Best to get some proper rods. It would help to know the composition of the stainless you are welding, 316, 304 etc, as you can buy rods specific for type. You can get general purpose stainless rods that will do the job ok. You will get heat marks, you will need to pickle the welds with pickling paste to clean them up & this will get rid of the heat marks. Beware of the pickling paste, it's evil stuff if you get it on your skin. I find stainless easier to weld than ferrous.
TIG's best if you can do it
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Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4: Don't feed the troll
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10 November 2010, 21:14
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#4
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: stramash
Make: Tornado
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 90
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorhandler
How thick is the tube?
The last thing you want is to blow holes in it with the arc welder!
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I'd imagine about 1.5 , its only 15 mm OD or so
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave
It would help to know the composition of the stainless you are welding, 316, 304
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By eck .. its shiny .. thats my limit I'm afraid
Because of the anticipated tube thickness,.. I'd prefer to use gas, but Ive never attemped with either, and just wondered if it was possible with gas, is there any difference in melting point for example over mild steel ?
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10 November 2010, 21:24
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#5
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: South Yorks
Boat name: Black Pig
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: DF140a
MMSI: 235111389
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 12,163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmuz7
I'd imagine about 1.5 , its only 15 mm OD or so
By eck .. its shiny .. thats my limit I'm afraid
Because of the anticipated tube thickness,.. I'd prefer to use gas, but Ive never attemped with either, and just wondered if it was possible with gas, is there any difference in melting point for example over mild steel ?
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I'm more than willing to stand corrected, but I don't think you can gas weld stainless in the traditional way. I know for a fact you can't cut it with gas like you can with mild steel. It doesn't melt & pool, it just sags & blobs. If I could, I would take it to someone who could TIG it, a much better job.
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Rule#2: Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level & then beat you with experience.
Rule#3: Tha' can't educate pork.
Rule#4: Don't feed the troll
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10 November 2010, 21:26
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#6
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Member
Country: UK - Channel Islands
Town: jersey
Boat name: Martini II
Make: Arctic 28/FC470
Length: 8m +
Engine: twin 225Opti/50hp 2t
MMSI: 235067688
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Posts: 3,030
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I'm not going to advocate gas welding stainless, it'll make a mess with discolouration etc that will be a bugger to clean up but more importantly there'll be a lot of heat going into what is probably fairly thin gauge tube, distortion could be a issue.
But if you must use a carborizing flame (excess acetylene) and a flux like Solar Flux, get the torch as close in to the joint as poss.
If you can't get hold of any filler rod without buying a kilo for couple hundred quid I've got some thin gauge 316 rods, could chop a couple in half and post 'em
Get an inverter down on your Xmas list, they're pretty cheap these days
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10 November 2010, 22:05
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#7
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Mighty Penryn
Boat name: Little Joe.
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF50
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martini
Get an inverter down on your Xmas list, they're pretty cheap these days
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I have a couple going cheapish.
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10 November 2010, 22:09
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#8
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: West Wales
Make: Vipermax 5.8, SR4.7
Length: 5m +
Engine: 150 Opti, F50EFi
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollers
I have a couple going cheapish.
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Do you now? How much?
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10 November 2010, 22:12
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#9
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Member
Country: UK - Channel Islands
Town: jersey
Boat name: Martini II
Make: Arctic 28/FC470
Length: 8m +
Engine: twin 225Opti/50hp 2t
MMSI: 235067688
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollers
I have a couple going cheap ISH.
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10 November 2010, 22:18
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#10
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Mighty Penryn
Boat name: Little Joe.
Make: Avon Searider
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF50
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,872
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downhilldai
Do you now? How much?
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I have two Thermal Arc Thermadyne ?model. The lads at work are saving-up to buy them. Should have more next week. I'll let ya know.
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10 November 2010, 23:18
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#11
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: stramash
Make: Tornado
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 90
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,090
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Better than submitting to Satan *spits used electrode* and getting a Mig set up you rekon ?
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10 November 2010, 23:31
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#12
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Member
Country: UK - Wales
Town: West Wales
Make: Vipermax 5.8, SR4.7
Length: 5m +
Engine: 150 Opti, F50EFi
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollers
The lads at work are saving-up to buy them.
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Hmmm, don't like the sound of that. I was hoping for something more along the lines of:
"Here's a fiver. Pop into town, get me a pasty and pick up a Thermadyne from Mollers on the way back with the change"
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11 November 2010, 00:28
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#13
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Make: HumberOceanOffshore
Length: 8m +
Engine: Volvo KAD300/DPX
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmuz7
Better than submitting to Satan *spits used electrode* and getting a Mig set up you rekon ?
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I've gas welded stainless a few years ago. It worked ok but the weld was pretty course and scruffy. I tried it with and without flux but neither was good. It's odd stuff on gas because it doesn't conduct heat well so you don't get a nice molten onion puddle to fill.. at least, I didn't. Tig is good, even a cheap scratch start tig is pretty ok and if you can gas weld you will be able to tig weld. When the arc strikes, there is the equivalent of a flame so it's a two handed job similar to gas welding. Of course, you need to invest in a cylinder of shielding gas, a regulator and a torch too along with the inverter. It needs to be a torch designed for use with an inverter because you need a manual gas valve on the torch. There may be more modern stuff available nowadays.. dunno.
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JW.
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11 November 2010, 08:32
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#14
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Member
Country: France
Town: Huisnes sur Mer
Boat name: Raufoss
Make: Avon
Length: 4m +
Engine: Mercury 50
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 789
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Hi
I hate to be the bringer of bad news but because of the difference in thickness 3/1.5mm, you are going to have to be a very skilled welder to glue it all together with an arc welder.... To get decent penetration on the 3mm plate you will have to have the amperage up to a point where you risk blowing the 1.5mm tube.... Could get very messy indeed.
To do it properly you would need to have it tig welded using a good make of 316 filler rod and Argon.
Shouldn't be too expensive to get it done though seeing as it's only a small amount. It's worth it as (IMHO) there is nothing worse than nice shinny stainless with rusty weld beads tacked onto it.
Tig welding ensures a contaminate free weld which, after polishing, should prevent the weld from rusting (even if you use a good 316 electrode on the arc welder I reckon it will start to rust)
If you do have a go yourself then remember that preparation is key to a good finish... Make sure you clean the surface as best as possible prior to welding and weld it inside where there is no wind.... Oh ang get yourself a stainless steel wire brush otherwise a mildsteel brush will probably deposit shite in the weld resulting in it rusting later on...
Hope this helps
Simon
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C'est pas l'homme qui prend la mer, c'est la mer qui prend l'homme....
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11 November 2010, 08:49
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#15
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: swanwick/hamble
Boat name: stormchaser
Make: custom rib
Length: 8m +
Engine: inboard/diesel
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,848
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the polishing is important, not only does it make it shiney but it also makes a barrier to stop it rusting, if you left it unpolished it would rust, i did know the technical name for it, about 30years ago!
tig is the only way really, it is 1.5mm wall on most tube and it's only 316 on boats
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11 November 2010, 18:20
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#16
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Member
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Boat name: stramash
Make: Tornado
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 90
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorhandler
because of the difference in thickness 3/1.5mm, you are going to have to be a very skilled welder to glue it all together with an arc welder.... To get decent penetration on the 3mm plate you will have to have the amperage up to a point where you risk blowing the 1.5mm tube...
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Well I rekon thats why its failed in the first place. Its just light tube and just welded on the outside face, and probably had one too many hairy ars*d diver knock against it,... I think I'm up to the job ok, but fek it .. its too small a job to invest in some nooo kit .. mabes I'll just whip it orf and take it down to me local machine shop then .. Ok .. thanks for all your advice chaps
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11 November 2010, 19:07
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#17
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: Essex/Vendee
Boat name: shockwave,Voluntry 2
Make: Pac 22/ searider5.4
Length: 6m +
Engine: 180hp turbo,yam 90
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,022
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I have got a stainless steel welder that i want to sell .I have mentioned it before and some one did put their name down for it but cannot remember who it was the price is £300 it has only been used for three hours comes complete with gauges.If the person who wanted it before can have first refusal.I will advertise it in bits and peices
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13 November 2010, 21:08
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#18
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Member
Country: UK - England
Town: birmingham
Boat name: mine
Make: avon
Length: 4m +
Engine: 40hp petrol
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 22
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hi all i have been a welder from when i left school a long time ago the best way is tig but tig set are dear the other one is mig with stainless wire and pure argon gas that way it dont rust i have just used this method on my aframe hold good and is neat so if you know any one with a mig you can just buy a small rool of wire about a tenner and give it a go
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13 November 2010, 21:46
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#19
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RIBnet admin team
Country: Ireland
Length: 4m +
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,893
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Stainless Steel Welder
Biggers...
Ask him if he has the Manual
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13 November 2010, 21:54
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#20
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Member
Country: UK - Channel Islands
Town: jersey
Boat name: Martini II
Make: Arctic 28/FC470
Length: 8m +
Engine: twin 225Opti/50hp 2t
MMSI: 235067688
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,030
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willk
Biggers...
Ask him if he has the Manual
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