What are the advances on RIB design these days?

[Manos]

Looking at RIB prices Worldwide I see that they get higher and higher by the minute.
Justifiable you may say since labour and material costs escalate at the same pace.
Not enirely acceptable I will argue.
But is not only the cost. What about the design? Are there any new drastic developments on RIB design that reduce the BANGING, give better performance, reduce consumption due to less friction. I'm not talking here for the stepped hulls VERY OLD, USA NAVY DESIGN - I think it came out in 1950s or the concave hulls that are OK for rough but not good for smooth waters, or any of the other gimmicks that ALL have come out from the USA before the European manufactures ever knew what a RIB is. I am trying to talk about GENUINE DEVELOPMENT IN EUROPE where RIBing is a popular sport.
What are the advances?
I .... haven't heard of any new major advances lately in either design, materials or fabrics. May be I'm wrong.

IMHO it would have been justifiable to pay through the nose £350K I hear for a bloated boat (RIB), £299K another one and the list is endless. I think this is rediculous UNLESS these boats except the crap that they have on board and which IMHO make them look like something out of a halloween's night they have something else to offer.

Looking at the photos of some of them I can't see anything ... but then again I'm not an 'expert'. May be there is. BUT WHAT?

Any views on the subject?

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by Manos

I think it came out in 1950s or the concave hulls that are OK for rough but not good for smooth waters, or any of the other gimmicks that ALL have come out from the USA before the European manufactures ever knew what a RIB is.

I'll put this down to a mis-type . I think you may find RIBS are generally considered to be down to the British ???????

Is it a case of 'if its not broke , dont fix it' . Why try to re-invent the wheel ?

[m chappelow]

as blackroady said british ,the RNLI atlantic collage in wales to be exact with help ,hence the ATLANTIC CLASS BOATS 18,21 ,75,then the 85from the other well known wesh inflatable firm .way back around 1963,first idea by desmond hoare ,it was working with the RNLI sibs at that time the 16 ft zodiac D class which lead from adding plywood to the rubber hull to the concept of adding rubber to a hard hull ,first were plywood then grp ,most of the experimental boats are still around though not in use ,even now the RNLI is a leader in rib design trying new ideas out ,having said that they are not in the leisure market ,though engine inversion proofing ,self righting bags ,console seating .and ballast tanks were all developed at atlantic college or at the inshore lifeboat centre on the isle of wight .even the very large Medina class r.i.b with a full cabin was developed,eventually going to the dutch ,

[Manos]

@ Blackroady ... I was talking to friend of mine that works for the US Navy as a naval architect and engineer and he said that it was them that invented the new technologies on RIB design. Not that they invented the RIBs of course.
May be I didn't expressed it as well as I could and I'm sorry.

I agree if it does not brake don't fix it. However we are talking that some manufactures ask for very many thousands for a 10 mtrs RIB (350K I heard for an open RIB not even a cabin RIB). For that amount I think that the boat MUST have something new developed so this guys is asking this much for his R&D costs. Which IF this WAS THE CASE I can understand. BUT IS NOT!

[JSP]

There are new design's in hull shape all the time but how much can you change a hull?

[Manos]

@ jsp ... do you know what are they? How are they different from what we have?

From what my sources say some so called 'new hull designs' are EXACT copies from military US hull designs. So they are not new

[JSP]

Originally Posted by Manos

@ jsp ... do you know what are they? How are they different from what we have?

From what my sources say some so called 'new hull designs' are EXACT copies from military US hull designs. So they are not new

Ok, more variations of the design.

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Manos

I'm not talking here for the stepped hulls VERY OLD, USA NAVY DESIGN - I think it came out in 1950s or the concave hulls that are OK for rough but not good for smooth waters, or any of the other gimmicks that ALL have come out from the USA before the European manufactures ever knew what a RIB is. I am trying to talk about GENUINE DEVELOPMENT IN EUROPE where RIBing is a popular sport.
What are the advances?
I .... haven't heard of any new major advances lately in either design, materials or fabrics. May be I'm wrong.

Cookee on here might be a good person to speak to.
You could try doing some research yourself and find out who invented the RIB rather than just making it up yourself.
Don't the US Navy use Avon Seariders, designed and built in Wales (Wales is part of Great Britian!)

New materials are carbonfibre and kevlar. I believe the Atlantic 85 has a kevlar hull.
Developments could be considered as ballast systems or fuel tanks that have transfer pumps.

As for pricing it all depends what you want. I think RIB prices in the UK are reasonable.

[JSP]

Originally Posted by chewy

Cookee on here might be a good person to speak to.
You could try doing some research yourself and find out who invented the RIB rather than just making it up yourself.

New materials are carbonfibre and kevlar. I believe the Atlantic 85 has a kevlar hull.
Developments could be considered as ballast systems or fuel tanks that have transfer pumps.

As for pricing it all depends what you want. I think RIB prices in the UK are reasonable.

I don't totally agree there mate. Newer designs fair enough as your paying for the research and development of the new hulls, tubes etc but have you seen the price of a new Avon searider 5.4 I mean come on!

[chewy]

How much are they?

I was thinking of how cheap Humbers are, well I don't think they're badly priced anyway?

How much do you think the SR5.4 should cost?

[9D280]

£350K fora rib???? I think we are in a similar discussion area here to comparing a ferrari or a Roller to a Ford Mondeo! I bet Ferarri don't sell in a Year the volume that Ford sells in a week!

I could replace my 25 YO humber with it's new equivalent hull for about £5.5K. The clue might also be in the fact that my hull is 25YO and is still as solid as the day it left the factory after a life in the North sea followed by a few years abuse as a club safety boat!

...Also remember the word "boat" or "marine" doubles the price of everything round here!

[chewy]

Thats what I'm getting at.
£5500 is good I think, its lasted 25 years... how many cars last that long!

[JSP]

Originally Posted by chewy

How much are they?

I was thinking of how cheap Humbers are, well I don't think they're badly priced anyway?

How much do you think the SR5.4 should cost?

I agree about Humber, think they are at about the right price.
Just tried to find the advert for the searider. bare hull was about £16 grand I think.

[Manos]

@ chewy .... re your comments most probably did not read my other post .... and please ... I do not make inventions ... I just make comments

[codprawn]

Manos you have to realise the Yanks claim they invented everything and it is always bigger/better/faster etc etc than anyone elses.

I don't know what sort of hulls the Yanks are supposed to have invented in the 1950s - most of the designs were much earlier than that. The 1st flying boat had a stepped hull in 1910 - designed by a British chap called John Cyril Porte.

Thjere is nothing much new in hull design despite what people claim. Wave piercing hulls are all the rage now. They are also building hulls long and thin again. Not exactly new either - look at this photo of Turbinia from 1894 - the 1st ever to use steam turbines.

As has been pointed out RIBs as we know them were developed at Atlantic college in Wales along with Avon in Llanelli - about 10 miles from where I live.

I agree with you though that RIBs are way overpriced when compared to similar sized hard boats!!!

[Manos]

WOW cod ... didn't know that! Thanks for the info mate

[m chappelow]

even the vikings had the ultimate wave piercing hull ,still in use today 1000years later in yorkshire ,christopher colombous is now thought to have used a chart when he discovered america made by the Dutch that he nicked off them .

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by JSP

I don't totally agree there mate. Newer designs fair enough as your paying for the research and development of the new hulls, tubes etc but have you seen the price of a new Avon searider 5.4 I mean come on!

I do think that Avon do trade off the name more than most, but as all the SR owners on here will attest they are good boats. But nowadays you sell stuff for as much as you can get away with/ people will pay - thats what business is all about.

You can pay £350k for a RIB , only if you have £350k in the first place - as the owner of a very nice Arctic 35 cabin told me last night - there is always something bigger & more expensive if you want to pay for it !

Or you can £350 and have just as much fun/ enjoyment , but of a differant kind. I smile as much at 50 knts with 200hp as I do at 2.5knts revving away with my 2.5hp on my SIB.

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by m chappelow

even the vikings had the ultimate wave piercing hull ,still in use today 1000years later in yorkshire ,christopher colombous is now thought to have used a chart when he discovered america made by the Dutch that he nicked off them .

Thaqt's not a wave piercer as such.

Ahh but did he discover America? The Vikings - the Welsh and the Irish got there 1st - probably!!!

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Manos

WOW cod ... didn't know that! Thanks for the info mate

Manos the Yanks are great people - just remember to take some of their claims with a large pinch of salt!!!