What do you think about it ? 4,85 fast motorboat ECO

[MatFromPoland]

Sorry to post it on RIB forum but you are experienced people here.
It is for motorboat but not RIB.

Friend of mine owns small business to set-up boats (he sold me new engine, mount it, hydraulics, electrics - AKU, everything). He makes also small 4,4m boats for fun and fishing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvZyoBfVcIU

Very solid, he uses kevlar mesh mats. He makes some solar powered cat's but it is not his project but order from some German company (they sell them to Dubai and German rental offices for restricted areas).

But he always want to make some unique boat I think so he has made model and form for speed boat hull (not exactly like legendary Hydrostream but similar size and better performance for small engines):

These are first test (this barrel is for displacement). He tested bottom hull only use 50 HP MERC and 13 and 14 props (he had not bigger ones during tests). Engine has been cut on both above 6400 RPM but purpose of the test was to check behavior not top speed.

It works like Concorde airplane. It fly above water surface. You seat like "in the middle of air". He tested with 3 persons and results was the same. The hull returns to this position after any maneuver or change speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oq29Dm4NjWM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbNA0LYf3BI

Boat will have 4 cubic seats (driver, passenger behind driver and 2 seats on the back). ECO version will cost 5000 GBP hull only plus current price of MERC 50HP engine (or EVINRUDE 50). He is sure that "special" version can keep even 200HP. It's size id 485 cm length. I think that V angle is 22.

Why I ask about opinion. Do you see any potential customers for such kind boat ? It is fast, but for inland areas only I suppose.

Do not tell him but I'm a little skeptical.
Many thanks for share any opinion and thoughts.

Finish it is a financial challenge for him so I'm trying to stop him a little.
He have to make forms for console, top, ...

>>>>>

It be certified as D cat.

[paintman]

Seems a bit like re-inventing the wheel. Lots of small speedboats around, some of which don't seem to be much different.
E.G: Fletcher Arrow 13" 40hp Mariner Electric Tilt & Trim Electric Start Snipe traile | eBay
Have a look through ebay under the heading 'speedboat'.
and youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmI-GEyL5F0

Has he done any research into the marketplace for small speedboats? Boat sales suffer when money is tight esp in times of recession.

ETA Couple of years ago at the regatta in the village I holiday in one of the other entrants in the 'speedboat race' had one that looked like a small dart with same engine as mine (135hp Merc V6). I full expected it to leave me for dead - & in a couple of straight line runs for the benefit of the handicapper it did - but in the race he was nowhere to be seen. In the chat after the event he said as soon as it hit any wake from other boats that had set off before him or slight chop that was on the water that day the handling was all over the place & he sensibly withdrew.
So I wonder what the result would be on your friends boat.

[MatFromPoland]

He told me that no one makes such new boats.
And this one is ECO - fly over use less power.
He is sure also that this one use this Merc and 19 prop will go easy and safe more than 90 km/h

But I'm so skeptical like you. About possible customers (especially within Poland) in EU.
If nobody now make such boats maybe nobody wants them ...

[Xk59D]

if he has the skills tell him to make a cheaper folding rib design maybe?

[MatFromPoland]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

if he has the skills tell him to make a cheaper folding rib design maybe?

In this area many generations have been building boats.
In few km range you have shipyards making boats for Norway (Nordkapp), USA (Byaliners) ... and many other.

He project this hull all by himself. And when you check movies this boat softly drives completely over water surface.

Why folding ? And I have asked him 1y ago for RIB but Neoprene tubes (made and install in Poland) costs 2500 GBP for 5,5m boat. Total price for 5,5m RIB like 6 000-7 000 GBP still not guarantee success. Plus you have to invest time and pay for work to make model and form (about 3-4months for 2 people).

[Xk59D]

i don't know your market for ribs in poland but if another one came to the UK it would be in with some serious competition, would probably struggle to make an impact here. that said, if he is only going to build a handful a year and they are well designed/built and upto the job then they will get a following and perhaps a waiting list ideally.

the reason i said folding is they are still relatively new outside of russia and a more affordable way to get boating with space limitations. if i had to gamble i would think they will eventually overtake sibs for the majority of people. the problem now is a "good sib" is circa 2-2.5x less than the f-rib.

[MatFromPoland]

I do believe in his passion, knowledge, quality of work but doubt in commercial success this boat (i'm talking about have more revenue than expenses - not success like millions of ...).

About folding RIB's - I have not any experience and have not seen anyone in real.
But I think I saw some thread about theme here and they have UK dealer.
It be hard to compete if they have been made them since years and solve some problems maybe.

There are ultralight ALU ribs in terms of small boats I think. I doubt why people want fold boat over ultralight and easy to tow (for example). But it is my opinion after tow mine to Greece. Before this I was scared about towing a boat also

[jyasaki]

Have your friend look at bass boats in the US.

Generally a flattish hull, usually big motors. The bass tournament guys run them as they're under a time limit, and zipping site to site leaves them more time to fish. The recreational guys run them because the pro's have them, and you *have* to run the same stuff as them.

Bass boats are great for what they're designed for: flat open water. Throw some chop or swell into the mix and it gets either uncomfortable, scary, or downright dangerous, depending on degree.

jky

[MatFromPoland]

It is different. It is deep V 22 degree (for below 5m boat is quite deep V I suppose), ultralight and you can use small engine like 50 HP MERC with 19 pitch prop to go over 90 km/h.


But still it is D category (inland)

I saw bassboats when have checked ETEC engines on their website.
I like them. I like ALU boats (not idea why).

Hydrostream was originally from US so maybe he shall try to find customers in US

[paintman]

Originally Posted by MatFromPoland

And this one is ECO - fly over use less power.

It's planing. Albeit little more than the prop in the water. Nothing new in that.
I also have concerns about the possibility of the boat catching a bit too much air & doing a Bluebird, esp with the weight & power of bigger engines. (Saw another small speedboat - similar size to your friends - nearly do that. Was vertical with the bow pointing to the sky. I fully expected it to finish up upside down but he was lucky in the the engine clipped the top of a wave & the boat came down right way up.)
Bluebird:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu_KdiZPuNc

[Andre]

I met Jacek at this year's boat shown in Gdynia. He is a very nice chap and rightfully very passionate about his production and especially about his boat HORN 440.
He wanted to take the HORN 440 from Poland to the Isle of Bornholm and back more or less without stopping some 100Nm round trip. I did manage to talk him out of it saying a promotion cruise along the Polish coast would be more beneficial not to mention a much safer cruise

I think Jacek is trying to reinvent the wheel with his new project and perhaps if he wants to break a speed record he should not think of a production run on his new boat and concentrate on the HORN 440 model or perhaps an all new HORN 550

[Last Tango]

Just a though but........with ever increasing restrictions on high speed boats on inland water I'd see a contracting market for this type of boat. There are no doubt members on this forum that started with small speed boats (I'm one of them) but with the speed limits imposed on, for example, the Lake District more boat users are heading for coastal water and need boats that are up to the job. I could be wrong but even Loch Lomond with it's partial restrictions has seen a reduction in registrations........RIBs.....the way to go

[MatFromPoland]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Just a though but........with ever increasing restrictions on high speed boats on inland water I'd see a contracting market for this type of boat. There are no doubt members on this forum that started with small speed boats (I'm one of them) but with the speed limits imposed on, for example, the Lake District more boat users are heading for coastal water and need boats that are up to the job. I could be wrong but even Loch Lomond with it's partial restrictions has seen a reduction in registrations........RIBs.....the way to go

Do you have such restrictions ? Is it on Loch Ness Lake ?
Jacek is going to sell these boats to UK
He has finished finally this boat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpUnTvp_S0I

It is movie from short test, it is not official (I suggested him to wear life jacket but he ... ignored my advice)

MERCURY 60 HP, prop Cleaver 22"
Going to plane with this prop was not perfect but max speed was about 100 km/h (this engine - from PARKER Poland) has "ratio" 1:1,85

Next test be with 17" prop max designed for this engine.
I think that max be 70-80 km/h but going on plane by much better with 3,4 persons

[Poly]

Originally Posted by MatFromPoland

Do you have such restrictions ?

as far as I know ALL the English lakes big enough to go fast in have very significant speed restrictions (essentially no planing!) .

Loch Lomond is the largest "lake" in the UK, it has some speed restrictions in relatively sensible areas close to shore (11 km/hr as I recall), and the limit everywhere else is I think 70km/hr.

[QUOTE] Is it on Loch Ness Lake ?[/QUOTE ] There is no speed restriction on Loch Ness, But: 1. It's several hours drive from 99% of the population. 2. It's in a picturesque place but at high speed it would soon become boring, unless Nessie popped out! 3. It's very deep, fed by melting snow, and doesn't get the benefit of the gulf stream so is freezing. 4. There are speed restrictions on the canals that join loch Ness to Loch Linnhe (a sea loch that joins the Atlantic - and all the amazing West of Scotland scenery, islands, wildlife, and small places to visit), and to the Dornoch firth (a river eastury, flowing into the north Sea, which is renowned for its whales and dolphins etc.)

So most people who might look to keep a boat in Loch Ness are not looking for race speeds, and most of the people who would get most excited about max speed are too far from loch Ness to benefit from it.

[MatFromPoland]

Many thanks for your thoughts @Poly
Hope that at least a few people would like to buy it as economical, lightweight boat.
Finally it is 5m boat for 4 persons and boat weight is about 200 kg

And it is fast and economical use 60 HP Mercury and 17" prop.

He is thinking to make some economical Pilot (or hybrid Pilot and half tubes) also.