What do you think of Brokers?

[goodhard]

I am very new to Rib's and Rib talk, but since doing pb2 my wife and I have been shopping for a family Rib. I thought we had found an ideal Rib for us but all i get from the broker is exaggerations lies and cowpoo!

For example the blurb says that she's a 2000 6 meter boat, but really she's a 1999 5.5m.


The blurb says 200 engine hours, the gauge says 800. The broker says "you can plug it in to check" the marine mechanic says there is no plug hole.

Like a lamb i paid a £5000.00 deposit subject to sea trial. Guess what? the broker was at the helm and upon returning I asked to have a go. I have quite strong arms ( don't know why this is :-) ) and i could hardly turn the wheel, my wife and kids would have had no chance. The broker and I shook hands on a deal where he paid for hydraulic steering. The next day I receive a call to say its done. Funny two weeks i thought but i went to have a look. It seems that the Marine engineer thinks that hydraulic steering is not needed on a mariner 90 so they fitted low friction cables. Where are the old cables i ask? in the bin but the bin has been emptied so they have gone.

I have emailed the broker requesting the return of my deposit I will let you know how i get on.

Back to the title what do you think of Brokers?

[Downhilldai]

I don't think much of this one - who is it?

[Hightower]

Don't name him yet, see if he returns your deposit first. If no deposit then name please, it might stop someone else from having problems with that particular dealer.

BTW, I had a Merc 90 on the back of a 5.5m RIB, cable steering was OK to drive with personally, however with family members wanting a go then Hydraulic is the way to go. I changed from cable to hydraulic because of wear in the steering and wouldn't go back to cable ever again.

If he said Hydraulic then I would expect Hydraulic and nothing else. Yet another example of dealers misleading customers, I would insist on recouping your money before you get sucked into too deep.

[willk]

Originally Posted by goodhard

Back to the title what do you think of Brokers?

Well, there's a lot of things one could say and lots of opportunity for smart comment. I've just gone through the buying process and I've met all sorts. I suppose they have their uses and functions or they wouldn't be in business. They're a bit like recruitment agencies, nursing the egos on both sides of what should be a very simple transaction, and getting well paid for it. I think the most important thing to remember is that they appear to take no responsibility for what they tell you and I heard some outrageous lies about ribs I looked at:

Northern seller (OK, not a broker):
Said: Hull and engines in excellent condition.
Meant: Rib previously dropped off trailer, keel filled and both skegs BENT.

Northern Broker:
Said: Ready to go sea
Meant: If you're tired of life. Rib for sale because disposal too costly.

Waterford Builder/Broker:
Said: Excellent tubes and 2001 hull and 2004 engine
Meant: Tubes showing fabric, hull c. 1998, engine unknown, plate removed.

Waterford Builder/Broker:
Said: Excellent Rib, ready to go diving
Meant: Has a BFO hole in the keel (no really, a hole, notch shaped from hitting a square edge). Console & jockey mountings cracked. Electronics DOA.

I drove for two days to check the last pair. Not best pleased....

In summary - They just show you boats. You can tell the Broker is lying 'cos you can see their lips moving. And, they sell a lotta kit, a guy like me buying a little used rib is just a warm up exercise before going to work, they won't loose a lot of sleep over me.

Well, that's a load off my chest

And Hi to all those great, excellent and professional brokers out there... wherever you were hiding!

[bogib]

Originally Posted by willk

Well, there's a lot of things one could say and lots of opportunity for smart comment. I've just gone through the buying process and I've met all sorts. I suppose they have their uses and functions or they wouldn't be in business. They're a bit like recruitment agencies, nursing the egos on both sides of what should be a very simple transaction, and getting well paid for it. I think the most important thing to remember is that they appear to take no responsibility for what they tell you and I heard some outrageous lies about ribs I looked at:

Northern seller (OK, not a broker):
Said: Hull and engines in excellent condition.
Meant: Rib previously dropped off trailer, keel filled and both skegs BENT.

Northern Broker:
Said: Ready to go sea
Meant: If you're tired of life. Rib for sale because disposal too costly.

Waterford Builder/Broker:
Said: Excellent tubes and 2001 hull and 2004 engine
Meant: Tubes showing fabric, hull c. 1998, engine unknown, plate removed.

Waterford Builder/Broker:
Said: Excellent Rib, ready to go diving
Meant: Has a BFO hole in the keel (no really, a hole, notch shaped from hitting a square edge). Console & jockey mountings cracked. Electronics DOA.

I drove for two days to check the last pair. Not best pleased....

In summary - They just show you boats. You can tell the Broker is lying 'cos you can see their lips moving. And, they sell a lotta kit, a guy like me buying a little used rib is just a warm up exercise before going to work, they won't loose a lot of sleep over me.

Well, that's a load off my chest

And Hi to all those great, excellent and professional brokers out there... wherever you were hiding!

Well said.... hope you will not put me in either of above categories after buying you a drink next time you are across

Bogi

[willk]

Originally Posted by bogib

Well said.... hope you will not put me in either of above categories after buying you a drink next time you are across

Bogi

Originally Posted by willk

And Hi to all those great, excellent and professional brokers out there... wherever you were hiding!

So, that's where you are - I knew there had to be at least one! With the cooperation of the Tollstjórinn, there will be a small quantity of Guinness and Whiskey travelling too, so we'll discuss the concept of Honest Brokers in proper style.

[roywebster]

We are not all the same , I run a brokerage in Cowes specialising in RIBs

When a customer commissions me to sell their RIb I try to see the RIB and confirm the information that they have given me,

I spend time checking HIN Numbers and Serial Numbers of Engines to confirm dates and ask vendors to provided a written statement that they are free to sell the boat . I recommend to all purchasers that they thoroughly inspect the boat and if necessary have the boat surveyed. At this stage if the customer wants to make an offer subject to sea trial, we carry out the sea trial. The deposit is not taken until the after sea trial when the purchaser confirms that he wants to purchase the boat.We charge 5% commission and the only other charges are for fuel for sea trials, towing if appropriate and any lifting out or in . I try to be fair and honest to both seller and buyer. that way you get repeat business .

[Jimbob]

I am sure some are very good, others are very poor.

In both cases when i purchased boats

1) Humber, the boat was fine however there were items like a blocked fuel line and other items i replaced, they told me just to sort them out in so many words....My lesson here was that buying a boat is worse that buying a second hand car

2) Scorpion, from Lymington (not scorpion as it was second hand), the boat appeared fine and when i asked for some items like a spare wheel and the electronic map for the GPS, i was hold yep they will be sorted. Because i do trust people, i handed over the money...........the rest was basically down to me, e.g they never happened. And to top it all off he forgot to get me to sign a peice of paper, which i signed for him,,,,,,,but never did get the items sorted

So
I would say i am sure there are very many good ones, however the ones i have dealt with were a complete wasters and should earn their commission.

[roywebster]

Part of the process should be producing the inventory so both parties understand what is being sold, this should be done before the sale is completed.

At the hand over the purchaser should check this against the equipment.

[willk]

Originally Posted by roywebster

When a customer commissions me to sell their RIb I try to see the RIB and confirm the information that they have given me,

And I'm sure you do. The thrust of my argument is that you (as a broker) are under no particular onus to do so (other than your personal integrity and desire for further business). However, should a deal turn pear shape, your terms below, shown on your website, keep you well covered legally...

"PLEASE NOTE In selling these boat RIB Brokerage is acting as Brokers only. The vendor's are not selling in the course of a business. Whilst every care has been taken in their preparation, the correctness of these particulars is not guaranteed. The particulars do not constitute a term of any contract. A prospective buyer is strongly advised to check the particulars and where appropriate, and at his own expense, to employ a qualified marine surveyor. All vessels are offered for sale subject to being unsold. "

So basically, if you're a good bloke, one doesn't have to worry. How do I know meeting a broker, what I'm dealing with? A trade vendor has to provide some guarantees that stand up, or get sued/prosecuted. You could, in theory, tell me the exhaust blows gold dust and unless my surveyor/engineer disillusions me, that's OK.....

Ok so, bring on the Flaming Posts! It was Lions for me anyway..... Freedom was always too easy.

[ribraff]

South Coast dealer......

Avon Searider hull for sale...... perfectly seaworthy hull... just a few chips here and there......

Truth.....

Keel smashed off, huge hole in side, scratches penetrting the gel and in some places the laminate, looked like it had been dropped out of a helicopter.


Ho hum

[goodhard]

Lmao.. I am learning cheers

[goodhard]

Up date today. The Broker never replied to my email so i phoned him. The Broker has said if i email him my bank details he will transfer the money. I have sent the details requesting email confirmation that the transfer has been effected. I have heard nothing so far. Why he cant write a cheque I don't know. But I will see if i get an email tomorrow.

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by goodhard

Up date today. The Broker never replied to my email so i phoned him. The Broker has said if i email him my bank details he will transfer the money. I have sent the details requesting email confirmation that the transfer has been effected. I have heard nothing so far. Why he cant write a cheque I don't know. But I will see if i get an email tomorrow.

He's probably emptying you bank balance

[goodhard]

I have sent 5 emails asking for confirmation that the transfer has been effected. No response. I called into the office to ask why he had not replied. The broker said "i don't see why i have to " supposedly sent confirmation in front of me at his office, but nothing this end. I have a bad feeling about this.

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by goodhard

I have sent 5 emails asking for confirmation that the transfer has been effected. No response. I called into the office to ask why he had not replied. The broker said "i don't see why i have to " supposedly sent confirmation in front of me at his office, but nothing this end. I have a bad feeling about this.

Construct a letter and send it recorded delivery outlining your resons for not going forward with the sale and the resons you want your deposit back. Tell him that a copy has been sent to your solicitors and that he has 7 working days to re-credit your account with the deposit moneys you paid him or face legal action and police enquiry.

It also sounds like you have gone as far as you can, so might want to name him in this thread to see if anyone else has had bother with him and how they dealt with any disagreement.

[Limey Linda]

In addition to HT's advice, you should make a Police report NOW for fraud.
You should then advise him of the police report number/ date/ police station and officer number. etc.

[Searider]

£5000 seems like a very large deposit for a 5.5m RIB.

It is usual to pay a 10% deposit subject to sea trial and survey. You then sign a contract which sets out the rights of both parties regarding the sale, survey and sea trial - ie spelling out what the options are if the sea trial / survey don't go as hoped, dates for the survey, completion etc.

The Association of British Yacht Agents - ABYA, is an association whose aim it is to ensure high standards in the Brokerage industry. Their members are required to run a good operation with correct contracts and procedures, have a clients account and also to carry PI insurance.

Was it an ABYA member?

There are also some good brokers who are not ABYA members as well!

[Hightower]

Originally Posted by Limey Linda

In addition to HT's advice, you should make a Police report NOW for fraud.
You should then advise him of the police report number/ date/ police station and officer number. etc.

Very good advice from Limey too. You could then add this info to the letter to give it extra weight.

[Limey Linda]

A few months ago my elderly uncle called me to tell me that someone had stolen 150 pounds from his bank account. He had contacted the bank and of course the response was " not our problem" I advised him to go to the police and make a report and get a copy and take it to the bank. They paid up instantly. IT WORKS.