What the "cheapest" way to stay safe at sea?

[Max...]

Originally Posted by SR4

With all respect a PB level 2 is just an RYA certification and you pay for the privileged of having that bit of paper, this guy is on a budget so he can learn a lot cheaper from an experienced boater far more than is on the basic PB level 2 curriculum. I have PB level 2 by the way and more, but it costs money and some people can't afford it, it's the knowledge and experience that counts for them, not fancy or even plain bits of paper that you get charged for but agree at least you know the basics have been covered and signed off

Eh?? The piece of paper is irrelevant (like most who have done it I haven't a clue where my 'certificate' is). Like any short piece of training for those new to a subject - it's a course for those who have not had a boat before and over two days teaches you the basics of handling a boat, navigation, kit, safety, rules of the sea, tides, weather, launching etc, etc.

Speaking personally I found it great fun and a lot of use even though like others I was not new to boats and had 'read all about it on the internet'...

[willk]

OP - I think you have got the equipment/training thing back to front.

My reading of the pattern I see often on RIBnet/Real World is:

Man sees sea - likes what he sees
Man buys small boat - goes on sea, has bad experience
Man is rescued by men with Lots of Equipment
Man thinks "hmmm, I need Lots of Equipment"

What the Man doesn't see is the Years of Training & Experience the other men had.

Training (formal or hands-on) first - the Equipment bit will be obvious afterwards.

[SR4]

So what, does it matter who teaches you, RYA scheme or not if you learn exactly the same things? some people don't have £250 to pay a professional instructor, you can get exactly the same free, oh and a bit of fuel and time, it's not rocket science

This guy does Not have £250, maybe someone here could give him the course free and help him then!

[SR4]

Originally Posted by willk

I think you have got the equipment/training thing back to front.

My reading of the pattern I see often on RIBnet/Real World is:

Man sees sea - likes what he sees
Man buys small boat - goes on sea, has bad experience
Man is rescued by men with Lots of Equipment
Man thinks "hmmm, I need Lots of Equipment"

What the Man doesn't see is the Years of Training & Experience the other men had.

Training (formal or hands-on) first - the Equipment bit will be obvious afterwards.

VERY VERY TRUE and it happens EVERY year at the boat shows, man sees shiny boat, man convinces family and then buys boat, gets boat delivered, goes out to sea, scares crap out of wife and kids, they never go back on boat, he tries weekends alone on boat but misses family, boat sold

[spareribs]

Originally Posted by willk

OP - I think you have got the equipment/training thing back to front.

My reading of the pattern I see often on RIBnet/Real World is:

Man sees sea - likes what he sees
Man buys small boat - goes on sea, has bad experience
Man is rescued by men with Lots of Equipment
Man thinks "hmmm, I need Lots of Equipment"

What the Man doesn't see is the Years of Training & Experience the other men had.

Training (formal or hands-on) first - the Equipment bit will be obvious afterwards.

I dont think I need lost of equipment, thats why I am asking for your experience like the man says. I'm not paying for someone to go and tell me to read a pamphlett they have just given me. I dont have the money. You can have all the equipment , tones of it and not have the common sense to see a big black cloud as a warning and you'll die. In tobago they go out all the time in little boats with no safety equipment, well they do write "Jah Protect I" or something like that on the front thats it, they come back every day, well most!! because they read the sea , they watch it all day and know exactly when they can and when they cannot go out. And if they do what to expect. I want to find a safe happy medium between the two, that doesnt pay for someone elses yaght , "??? how do you spell yaght , YOT , there you go I did it.

[spareribs]

a tip , if the misses doesnt want you getting a boat, tell her theres a good chance you could get lost at sea, watch the expression change , then either give her a big kiss or get the divorce papers !!!

[willk]

Originally Posted by spareribs

In tobago they go out all the time in little boats with no safety equipment, they come back every day, well most!!

Yes they do, they even took me out once and it will remain once

It was my scariest experience at sea ever: Six people, two lifejackets and one mobile phone, big lumps, guy bailing with a bucket...

Having said that, they were excellent boatmen and would have been doing that for years - they were very unconcerned, all in a days work for them. However, had the boat capsized it was all over - no floatation, no comms, no rescue service.

I have re-read your OP and I think you should get someone knowledgeable to take you out for a day to run through the kit and it's uses with you. Buying the stuff on a recommendation is a waste of time if you don't even know that/why you need it.

[Max...]

Where are you planning to launch?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by SR4

With all respect a PB level 2 is just an RYA certification and you pay for the privileged of having that bit of paper, this guy is on a budget so he can learn a lot cheaper from an experienced boater far more than is on the basic PB level 2 curriculum. I have PB level 2 by the way and more, but it costs money and some people can't afford it, it's the knowledge and experience that counts for them, not fancy or even plain bits of paper that you get charged for but agree at least you know the basics have been covered and signed off

Its possible to get a PB2 certificate for less than £250, if you want to (that is not necessarily to say that the cheapest PB2 will be as good as the more expensive one even if they are all supposedly to the same standard). e.g. my local outdoor centre only charges £120 (although is only inland water). A quick look suggest that price is probably typical of sailing club or council run facilities.

Originally Posted by SR4

So what, does it matter who teaches you, RYA scheme or not if you learn exactly the same things? some people don't have £250 to pay a professional instructor, you can get exactly the same free, oh and a bit of fuel and time, it's not rocket science

becoming an RYA instructor is not just about being a an experienced guy, its about knowing how to train people and help them learn. An expert at boat handling isn't necessarily good at teaching, or won't necessarily pass on "bad habits". The fact there is a syllabus to follow also forces (to some extent) all areas to be covered, and less interesting / fun topics not to be ignored. With an 'old hand' showing you the ropes there is a temptation to focus on the routine stuff and ignore some of the things that might only happen sporadically - but really matter when they do. Similarly I've known a few old duffers who would dismiss 'modern' approaches because they've managed fine without for 50 yrs (whether that is the need for a life jacket, the potential usefulness of DSC radio or GPS etc, or even a kill cord) - RYA instructors are constantly brought up-to-date with new thinking which means you might get a better understanding of the pro's/con's of such choices. The RYA has spent a lot of time refining and developing a syllabus which good instructors then use as a foundation for their courses - to assume that someone teaching power boating for the first time is going to deliver the same value is probably naive.

Obviously its possible for someone really good to share their experience with you 'free of charge' but if they are so good (and want to spend their time teaching) why have they not qualified as an instructor, and offering their skills through a local club or making money through employment? Whilst I am sure that not everything about RYA (or any other NGB) training program and internal politics is rosy I'd be cynical of anyone claiming to be an expert in 'leisure boating' who has completely ostracised themselves from the established route for training in that area.

This guy does Not have £250, maybe someone here could give him the course free and help him then!

feel free to go and share your wisdom with him at your own expense - although I don't think he actually said he doesn't have enough money for a course - he suggested he wasn't going to spend a fortune on electronic wizardry, probably wisely - he will use the skills he learns from a powerboat course every time he goes out. Wheras an EPIRB, a VHF or even a Chartplotter is likely to be largely unused for a lot of his local boating.

[spareribs]

Originally Posted by Max...

Where are you planning to launch?

Judging by the comments so far Tunbridge Wells Swimming Pool. No seriously, I dont really know that yet, my sister is going to take me out in hers, she's been at it a few years and is properly safety concious. She is actually going to give me some training. Where do you recommend I go, I was thinking near hasting area , well I'm in Tunbridge Wells area so Rye, Eastbourne , south coast, probably the river meadway first of all in Tonbridge.

Where for a novice?

[spareribs]

Originally Posted by willk

Yes they do, they even took me out once and it will remain once

It was my scariest experience at sea ever: Six people, two lifejackets and one mobile phone, big lumps, guy bailing with a bucket...

Having said that, they were excellent boatmen and would have been doing that for years - they were very unconcerned, all in a days work for them. However, had the boat capsized it was all over - no floatation, no comms, no rescue service.

I have re-read your OP and I think you should get someone knowledgeable to take you out for a day to run through the kit and it's uses with you. Buying the stuff on a recommendation is a waste of time if you don't even know that/why you need it.

I went out 6 hours trolling , my 3 year old in tow, the heavans opened and I mean opened, for about ten mins, long 10 mins, his advice to my son was, "be a mun" "be a mun" lol no coats nothing. I'd do it again. LOL

My sister is going to take me out. On her rib training , not fishing with the Rastafari.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by spareribs

I'm not paying for someone to go and tell me to read a pamphlett they have just given me. I dont have the money.

Not sure what makes you think that is what happens on training courses. I don't remember being asked to read any pamphlets on my RYA2 course ~80% of it was spent on the water. [There was some nonsense like this on the VHF course - but what do you expect when it is mandatory!] Part of the course involves a discussion (not a lecture) on what safety kit you need. This seems the ideal opportunity to ask about/challenge any kit you think is unnecessary.

Here are some questions to think about:

=> If your engine breaks down how will you get back to shore?
=> If you are drifting in the wind and can't get back how will you stop yourself (e.g. if being blown towards rocks or out to sea?)
=> If you had a major emergency how would you summons help?
=> If you fall in (or someone else on your boat does) can you get/you them back on board?
=> If you come across another boat which has broken down - could you safely rig a tow to help it?

[spareribs]

I've got to build some websites, boat obsession taking over too much. Got to earn some dough to pay for it. I'll do some website design work for someone if they sort me out some equipment. I do work for Honda , Diageo , Timeout , BBC right proffesional like ! Or a days training on the rib maybe???

[spareribs]

Originally Posted by Polwart

Not sure what makes you think that is what happens on training courses. I don't remember being asked to read any pamphlets on my RYA2 course ~80% of it was spent on the water.

Sorry was being a devils advocate , now I know a bit more you see. Thanks.

So you get the full training on a boat, sounds like something for the future.

[Max...]

Originally Posted by spareribs

Judging by the comments so far Tunbridge Wells Swimming Pool. No seriously, I dont really know that yet, my sister is going to take me out in hers, she's been at it a few years and is properly safety concious. She is actually going to give me some training. Where do you recommend I go, I was thinking near hasting area , well I'm in Tunbridge Wells area so Rye, Eastbourne , south coast, probably the river meadway first of all in Tonbridge.

Where for a novice?

Seriously, as others and myself have said - do the PB2 and ignore the naysayers - you'll learn so much and getting a mate/relation to show you how to 'drive' a boat is not the same thing. I posted the difficulties of launching in the Hastings area earlier but again if you do the PB2 at Eastbourne (run by the EB lifeboat coxswain) you will learn a lot about the area too.

As Willk says:

1. Man fancies boat.

2. Man buys boat.

3. Man takes boat to sea.

4. Help....sh*t...

Instead insert:

1a. Man does training.

...and you can mostly delete 4 or at least be reasonably equipped to deal with it. Get a VHF and do that course too!

[SR4]

So are you saying ALL RYA level 2 PB trainers are fit to train and some are not a total waste of breath on this planet because if you are I beg to differ from practical experience, there are some real nobbers out there that get a training certificate and suddenly know everything

When I did my Yacht Master training about 8yrs ago I was using electronic plotters on my boat, on the course there was absolutely no training relating to them although they were mentioned, I have no problem using old fashioned navigation but for the boating I do I will never ever use it again, hopefully, and before you say anything I do keep up to date paper charts on my vessel, another scam to extort money from boaters, thank goodness for the Navionics Apple App

[spareribs]

Originally Posted by Max...

Seriously, as others and myself have said - do the PB2 and ignore the naysayers - you'll learn so much and getting a mate/relation to show you how to 'drive' a boat is not the same thing. I posted the difficulties of launching in the Hastings area earlier but again if you do the PB2 at Eastbourne (run by the EB lifeboat coxswain) you will learn a lot about the area too.

As Willk says:

1. Man fancies boat.

2. Man buys boat.

3. Man takes boat to sea.

4. Help....sh*t...

Instead insert:

1a. Man does training.

...and you can mostly delete 4 or at least be reasonably equipped to deal with it. Get a VHF and do that course too!

Yeh , I like the look of that course. Could just write it down and get my sister to show me on her rib for free though. She has done it. I know the horses mouth is better but £250 better. What will she leave out that he wont, I supose its worth the £250 just for the local area knowledge when it comes down to why your doing it in the first place. Depends on what information they give you and whether that information is available in the same form for free elsewhere. Thats how you calculate the value of the course, it as simple as that really. If you cant get it as good for free elsewhere and its safety related, bite the bullett and cough up the money. Thats what I'm learning here.

[Channel Ribs]

Originally Posted by spareribs

If you cant get it as good for free elsewhere and its safety related, bite the bullett and cough up the money. Thats what I'm learning here.

It looks like you are getting there

You could have the most fancy-pants gear but unless you know how to use it, it is all decorative. The RYA Poerboat course is a great way to spend a couple of days on the water, you will learn stuff you never knew you didn't know! Your sister will have learned lots, but what if one of the bits she missed out on is the bit you really need? We are all different and the course is designed to cover it, find a well regarded instructor who knows the SE Coast; it will be great value for money.

[willk]

Originally Posted by spareribs

Could just write it down and get my sister to show me on her rib for free though. She has done it. I know the horses mouth is better but £250 better. What will she leave out that he wont,

My sister has a full driving license.

I'm not sure I'd want her to teach me to drive...

[SR4]

I guess everyone out there who has not done the PB level 2 course is either shouting Mayday or a calamity waiting to happen I wonder how many boating incidents are RYA course certified or not? The trouble with giving someone a stupid piece of paper is that they actually think they know things, I have been at sea for years and never stop learning every time I go out, I have the paper but to me it is worthless without the experience, and I only got the paper because regulations demanded I had it, if not I would not have bothered

If it was a case of learning myself and getting a friend to teach me AND buying a plotter worth £250 then getting on going help from friends, or doing the course and paying £250 then being left to it, I know what I would do, no good looking at your PB2 certificate when you hit a rock or are lost at sea and wishing you had a plotter or charts