What the "cheapest" way to stay safe at sea?

[SR4]

Originally Posted by willk

My sister has a full driving license.

I'm not sure I'd want her to teach me to drive...

EXACTLY And soon there will probably be women PB 2 instructors

[Poly]

Originally Posted by SR4

I guess everyone out there who has not done the PB level 2 course is either shouting Mayday or a calamity waiting to happen I wonder how many boating incidents are RYA course certified or not? The trouble with giving someone a stupid piece of paper is that they actually think they know things, I have been at sea for years and never stop learning every time I go out, I have the paper but to me it is worthless without the experience, and I only got the paper because regulations demanded I had it, if not I would not have bothered

I'd guess that most boating incidents are quite minor - some scuffed gel coat, a chinked prop etc, and that most 'certificated skippers' have quickly come to realise that they aren't infallible... ...thats not to say they didn't learn anything useful on their course.

If it was a case of learning myself and getting a friend to teach me AND buying a plotter worth £250 then getting on going help from friends, or doing the course and paying £250 then being left to it, I know what I would do, no good looking at your PB2 certificate when you hit a rock or are lost at sea and wishing you had a plotter or charts

if you think a £250 plotter is the high priority safety item for sparerib then I think you are way off the mark (pun intended). I think we are looking at:
- lifejacket, anchor and warp, vhf, chart, compass, torch, etc before the gadgets come into play... ...but if I had all that and little experience I'd go for a course over a toy any day.

Originally Posted by spareribs

So you get the full training on a boat, sounds like something for the future.

as much as possible of the course should be done on the water not in the classroom. different schools have different emphasis, but most of the learning is practical - even if you are in a classroom it should be 'hands on' stuff like tying knots (if you learn before you go you will save a lot of time and get more time doing interesting stuff), looking at charts, touching demo flares and epirbs so you know what they are etc. I actually think the whole course could be done on board but on most ribs that might be a bit uncomfortable. There is some stuff like 'rules of the road' which does need 'taught' but obviously is rather important.

Originally Posted by willk

My sister has a full driving license.

I'm not sure I'd want her to teach me to drive...

Indeed and very few people just use a relative to teach them to drive unless they have a very competent relative with the right skills and temperament. Part of that is of course about teaching people to pass a test not learning to drive - one of the good things about PB2 is it is not about passing a test it is about learning to use a boat.

[SR4]

I have to disagree for someone with no skill in navigation giving them paper charts is plain daft, even an anchor, a plotter is just like a Tom Tom and you would have to be totally daft to get that wrong even with little knowledge, but I do accept there are some daft people on the forum and you have to look at the lowest common denominator

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by SR4

there are some real nobbers out there

Originally Posted by SR4

there are some daft people on the forum

I certainly can't argue with that,you're bang on

[SR4]

I guess it takes one to know one

[ashbypower]

Originally Posted by SR4

, a plotter is just like a Tom Tom and you would have to be totally daft to get that wrong even with little knowledge,

Really ??? Just like a Tom Tom wow !! thats good, so a plotter takes be around hazards and plans a safe route !!!
Bet they had one of them on your YM course !!!

[bingosucks]

but I do accept there are some daft people on the forum and you have to look at the lowest common denominator [/QUOTE]

why are my ears burning

[spareribs]

Think about boating , then think about rock climbing, equally dangerous only one sport seems to be a little bit pathetic when it comes to making sure they dont hurt there little selfy welfies! Arrrrr. LOL am I right or what. If a rock climber was like a boater they would have a lift with a porter not a rope.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by SR4

I have to disagree for someone with no skill in navigation giving them paper charts is plain daft, even an anchor, a plotter is just like a Tom Tom and you would have to be totally daft to get that wrong even with little knowledge, but I do accept there are some daft people on the forum and you have to look at the lowest common denominator

Unless you have a £2000+ all singing all dancing Garmin plotter with automatic route planning then it is absolutely nothing like a "TomTom" - in fact it would be quite dangerous to suggest it is, you can't simply ask it to go to X and assume it will find you a reasonably sensible route.

I'm not suggesting anyone just gets in a boat with chart and off they go, a little bit of training (what you learn on PB2 might be enough [i'm not sure as I've only done the course once so not sure if what I learned was typical] - bit if not then a cheap book is enough to get you up-to speed on the essential elements). What is surely true is that if you can't read a chart a chart plotter ain't much use. The primary benefit of a plotter over a paper chart is it tells you where you are - but it doesn't tell you that the little + you are aiming for at 30 knots is really going to hurt when you arrive at it! Nor will any £250 plotter know whether the current state of tide means you can cross the 'green' bit, which side of that funny yellow and black stripy buoy you should be sticking to.

For the type of boating the OP described a cheap GPS (with no mapping) would probably get him to his fishing marks easily without wasting money on a plotter. Navigating at 20+ knots is certainly a totally different skill from Navigating at 2 or 3 knots - and a GPS (and a plotter) can be really useful to make it easier but they are NOT essential safety kit (the essential tool is already on the console - slow down to a speed where you are confident navigating).

[SR4]

Anyway, you all know what I mean, seafaring has been going on for centuries, long before RYA courses, so I think that proves you don't need to do one, but if you can afford it then it is a jolly good idea, subject to a decent instructor who is not a nobber

[spareribs]

life jackets, good engine , good boat , dont go out in bad weather , read the sea charts and learn your route before you go, look for possible obstacles and what you need should you encounter them and take it with you, the read the weather forecasts and use your brains. Is my generic safety summary.

[spareribs]

Thanks everyone you really have helped educate me . Great site.

[SR4]

Try fuel as well, that helps

[Poly]

Originally Posted by spareribs

Think about boating , then think about rock climbing, equally dangerous only one sport seems to be a little bit pathetic when it comes to making sure they dont hurt there little selfy welfies! Arrrrr. LOL am I right or what. If a rock climber was like a boater they would have a lift with a porter not a rope.

No your perception of risk associated with rock climbing is probably wrong! Statistically you are more likely to die playing table tennis (Risk of dying and sporting activities).

How many people walk into Tiso buy a climbing rack, rope and harness and then set off with no training - because it doesn't look that hard? Most people who have climbed a few times with a friend don't feel confident enough to head off into the wilds on their own, they either continue climbing under the supervision of their experienced friend as an 'apprentice' or they go and get some proper training. As with boating there is no certainty that your experienced friend is not introducing bad habits or techniques which are now considered outdated; although since their life usually depends on it to there might be more of a motivation to get it right.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by spareribs

life jackets, good engine , good boat , dont go out in bad weather , read the sea charts and learn your route before you go,

you don't need to 'learn it' but writing it down as a passage plan or sketch on some water proof paper will help you think it though.

look for possible obstacles and what you need should you encounter them and take it with you, the read the weather forecasts and use your brains. Is my generic safety summary.

KILL CORD
ANCHOR
MEANS OF CALLING FOR HELP

would all be on my 'essential safety' list. I also think of suitable clothing as a safety item as for the first couple of hours it is just for comfort but whilst you are bobbing up and down waiting for your shore contact [you did let someone know you were going out didn't you?] to realise you are overdue and report you missing it might save you or your passengers lives.

Originally Posted by SR4

Try fuel as well, that helps

indeed - I think the most common cause of lifeboat call outs to motor boats is running out of fuel so having a spare can of fuel on board is important.

[SR4]

Think I already covered all that unless I am typing in white ink again Or is it because I am not an RYA instructor so I can't be believed

Originally Posted by SR4

If you don't know that then I doubt you will be safe. You need to find a local forum member or someone else to help teach you basic stuff, any old fool can get a boat and head out to sea, but when the turn around or look back could lose sense of direction, you then just need some fog or bad weather or run out of fuel then you are in trouble, so do that FIRST.

For safety you need to ensure that the vessel is seaworthy as is the engine, if it is electric start have a good battery and a plan if the battery fails.

Have a second means of propulsion 1e.g. wing engine, oars

You will need lifejackets FOR ALL

Check the pressure of the tubes before you go out

Get a radio (if you have passed the course to use it and be licensed) or at very least a mobile phone in a 'waterproof cover' with the phone number of the coastguard logged in.

Tell a friend when you are going out, where you are going a a time you will be back, they they don't hear from you they will know something could be wrong.

Ensure that you have enough fuel and perhaps a little spare in another container, it is amazing how quickly it can run out and surprise you.

There are charts called 'tough books' I think, they are smaller sections of the coast in a waterproof format, but if you can blag a plotter even black and white all the better, but make sure you can understand it, same with the charts.

Have an anchor with a minimum of 2mtrs of chain for your size of boat and enough line for the areas you are visiting.

Take some basic tools and a torch

Take a spare line that can be used for towing or as a throw line.

Some smart phones have the capability for downloading charts, these are useful in an emergency as they will give you an idea of where you are dependent on the hardware you are using e.g. does it have built in GPS? otherwise it is done by signal triangulation not so accurate but not bad.

Make sure you have a KILL CORD, this will stop the engine if you depart from the RIB, if you don't the RIB could just circle around you and cut you up into pieces GET ONE!

Take some fresh water to drink and perhaps some carbohydrates in the event you need food for any reason.

Ensure you have the correct clothing for the weather, remember it can change quickly.

Flares if possible AND KNOW HOW TO USE THEM

That is a start, I am sure others will chip in, good luck and BE SAFE

[GJ0KYZ]

Absolute bare minimum IMHO - VHF, lifejackets for all, flares and anchor/rope. And tell someone where you're going and when you'll be back (costs nothing).

[SR4]

It is isn't it, I am typing in white ink and I can't ask how to change the colour because none of you can read this, can you?

[GJ0KYZ]

Originally Posted by spareribs

Think about boating , then think about rock climbing, equally dangerous only one sport seems to be a little bit pathetic when it comes to making sure they dont hurt there little selfy welfies! Arrrrr. LOL am I right or what. If a rock climber was like a boater they would have a lift with a porter not a rope.

I used to climb E7 and I can tell you with absolute certainty that rock climbing (not mountaineering) is miles safer than boating.

[bingosucks]

Originally Posted by SR4

It is isn't it, I am typing in white ink and I can't ask how to change the colour because none of you can read this, can you?

lol