Wheel chairs in ribs?

Tim M · 23 January 2007, 15:40

I know someone is completely paralyzed from the waist down. She is extremely active, drives her self around all over the country, etc etc.

I’ve often pondered on whether it would be feasible to take a her out in a rib. I saw the guys who run the Quinquri (or however its spelt) operation out of St Peter Port in Guernsey lift a lady from her chair into the rib, but she appeared to have reasonable use of her legs. Having just read this thread it seems the biggest problem is seating.

Do people think it would be possible/comfortable/a good idea to develop a system whereby the person was lifted into the boat in their chair, and stayed in the chair; basically a system for securing the chair to the deck of the boat. I would think this would be a lot more comfortable for them....

Nasher · 23 January 2007, 16:12

Tim

It should be easy enough to come up with a subframe to hold a chair based on the way pushbikes are located on roofracks.

As an example, the bench seat in Nashers Revenge removes in a couple of minutes and there would be plenty of room left to fit a chair. Any fixings would then be hidden under the bench seat at other times

If you are serious about trying it I'm sure we could knock something up for a trip out. Perhaps your friend could then offer advise on how to make it better, and we could offer to help others adapt their boats.

Nasher.

fred bolton · 23 January 2007, 16:26

I would have thought it would be more uncomfortable in a wheelchair when the boat is bouncing about, fine on a flat sea. But if someone is unable to take some of the shock on their legs they will be taking all the shock on the base of their spine.

fred bolton · 23 January 2007, 16:27

see this thread - http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?...ght=wheelchair

Petrov · 23 January 2007, 16:41

Check out this guy, been meeting him a couple of times and what he is doing for handicaped children is unbelievable

http://www.w4h.de/

NautiAndNice · 23 January 2007, 17:05

I prescribe and design wheelchairs and seating systems as part of my job.

Generally (if I do my job properly!) a person's wheelchair should be both comfortable and supportive and should be comfortable for a calm RIB outing.
If the outing was to be rough/fast, then I doubt that most wheelchair systems would be comfortable enough to withstand the shocks and vibrations experienced. I have jockeys with winged backrests on my boat and these provide a lot of trunk support. Perhaps the winged supports could be made larger and a series of neoprene straps made to securely hold a person in position on the seat? Footstraps on the deck would give extra stability.

Anchoring a wheelchair to the deck should be easy enough - perhaps using a mechanism similar to those in adapted buses - some form of track that the wheels sit in and a clamping mechanism.

A wheelchair anchored to a RIB with the wheelchair user strapped into the chair, or indeed a person securely strapped onto a seat, could potentially be quite dangerous should the RIB capsize as the person would be attached to the boat, unless they were v quickly able to release themselves from the seating and swim free. Am sure there's a solution to this though...

Getting a wheelchair on/off a boat would be easy enough with some form of dock-mounted hoist system.... although you'd need similar facilities at any stop off points on the trip ... or failing that, a couple of beefy blokes!

Tim M · 23 January 2007, 17:41

Odviously any system would be used in good, calm weather. . .

Dirk Diggler · 23 January 2007, 19:20

You need to have a chat with Cookee, his leisure banana shark comes ready fitted with a pair of wheelchairs!

John Kennett · 23 January 2007, 19:55

Now now Dirk, that's not very fair. Kitten did take the wheels off before fitting them

John

Colin F · 23 January 2007, 20:33

Tim,

I am a chair user and have been for 14 years now. My rib is set up for use by me. i wouldn't bother strapping a chair down and sitting in it on a boat, salt spray will wreck the chair and they a fffffing expensive for a good one. a bench seat is the best for a chair user, but flat topped jockeys are also useable, grab handles are a big help also.

With regards to slamming the hull down from waves and jarring yourself, lets just say it teaches you to drive it quickly

i've been out pretty rough stuff without any problems.

i've pm'd my number if you want any advice. Do you know what level your friends spinal injury is eg T12 (lower thorasic) or T1 (top thorasic) as the balance of people with different levels of injury varies.

John Kennett · 23 January 2007, 21:42

I used to crew occasionally on the Richmond Venturer, a Dutch barge specially converted and equipped to be fully wheelchair accessible. That has the track and clamp system that NautiAndNice described, but without wheelchair access to the boat there's probably not much point trying to attach a wheelchair to the boat. It seems the obvious solution at first, but may actually be way down the list of good solutions in practice.

Thanks NautiAndNice and Colin F for adding contributing some real expertise to the discussion. I love it when RIBnet comes up with the goods like this!

John

hamster · 23 January 2007, 21:53

If looking to spend money on a boat or even just a seat specially for a disabled person I would recommend speaking to an expert or someone whoi has done this job before and done it well.
We bought a Ribeye 785 at work and part of the speck for the boat was that we could allow disabled people to drive it. Not a problem they said we'll fit a 'sculpture wrap around' seat. They said they had done this before for people and I've seen a lot of these seats in their boats.
Any way, they place they have put the seat is reduculous. I am 6'2" and if I sit in the seat and sit in it properly without leaning forward I can not reach to puch the throttle past 2000rpm and can not see over the console well enough to drive at any sort of speed! If I cna't drive the boat from the seat how is a smaller less abled person going to get on? Although the seat is in tracks (as they do on all their boats) they have sikaflexed it to the deck so it can not be moved or removed without ripping the gelcoat off the deck! If the seat was higher and further forward it would be ideal as the boat gives a relatively smoth ride most of the time due to its size and the seat does give good support.
Unless you know the ability of the persons who will be driving the boat it may also be worth considering a top mounted throttle so an assistant could operate the throttle from the seat next to them if required.

Aidan · 23 January 2007, 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

I know someone is completely paralyzed from the waist down. She is extremely active, drives her self around all over the country, etc etc.

I’ve often pondered on whether it would be feasible to take a her out in a rib. I saw the guys who run the Quinquri (or however its spelt) operation out of St Peter Port in Guernsey lift a lady from her chair into the rib, but she appeared to have reasonable use of her legs. Having just read this thread it seems the biggest problem is seating.

Do people think it would be possible/comfortable/a good idea to develop a system whereby the person was lifted into the boat in their chair, and stayed in the chair; basically a system for securing the chair to the deck of the boat. I would think this would be a lot more comfortable for them....

PLease forgive me for asying, but I think you have all lost the plot.
Question 1. Does a chair float in the vertical position A. It doesnt float at all..
Question 2. Why then would you strap someone to this chair? A. FFFD If I know.
Question 3. Is it important we give the chair a comfortable ride, if at all? A. No not at all,
Question 4. THen why bring it along? A. FFFD if I know.

NOw lets look after the customer, not the chair.......
The wood from the trees boys!

geoff · 23 January 2007, 23:40

You may want to look at a front loading rib. A good friend of mine has one. I believe it is a Prestige. The ramp lowers and was originally designed to scoop casualties out of the water by lowering the ramp and driving forward slowly. Trevor had his modified so that you can drive a wheel chair onto it. We have used it off firm shingle and off a pontoon and a slipway, works well.
As you can see we had no problem with a high speed run down the Thames.
The third picture gives you a view of the ramp along with my son's charming boat race.

Andy Gee · 24 January 2007, 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

I know someone is completely paralyzed from the waist down. She is extremely active, drives her self around all over the country, etc etc.

I’ve often pondered on whether it would be feasible to take a her out in a rib. I saw the guys who run the Quinquri (or however its spelt) operation out of St Peter Port in Guernsey lift a lady from her chair into the rib, but she appeared to have reasonable use of her legs. Having just read this thread it seems the biggest problem is seating.

Do people think it would be possible/comfortable/a good idea to develop a system whereby the person was lifted into the boat in their chair, and stayed in the chair; basically a system for securing the chair to the deck of the boat. I would think this would be a lot more comfortable for them....

Hi Tim,
Redbay built a boat a number of years ago called "Bouncer" that was fully adapted for wheelchair use. I had a look at her and the engineering and thought that went into her was very impressive.
BAsically you could "lift" a wheelchair from either a pontoon, via on board ramp or hoist the chair from a peir using an pole/winch system. Once the person was onboard they slid themself into a cradle and could move around the boat using a rail system suspended from the roof. The system let the person move from seat to seat including the drivers, alowing them to drive or navigate.
The whole system works superbly.
I looked a system to fit onto my boat that was designed for fitment into Buses and taxis. It was a rail type system that you ratched the chair down to. Looked a good thing but in the end it was proving to be difficult to fit retrospectivly and after carrying a few disabled passengers we found the high back seats combined with the harness to be very good and comfortable by the users.
HTH
Andy

tim griffin · 24 January 2007, 09:35

Boatability at Port Solent have adapted Dory's for teaching RYA courses on .
Mike Holt of Sailability did a course there and was impressed with it .
May be they could help advise.

Nasher · 24 January 2007, 09:42

Tim

Do you think your friend would be able to sit at one end of the bench seat in Nashers Revenge just for a taster in good seas?

As you know there is a handle on the tubes to hang on to, and we could strap a bolster around the base of the seat to hold her sideways.

Let me know if you'd like to try it.

Nasher.

Tim M · 24 January 2007, 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aidan

PLease forgive me for asying, but I think you have all lost the plot.
Question 1. Does a chair float in the vertical position A. It doesnt float at all..
Question 2. Why then would you strap someone to this chair? A. FFFD If I know.
Question 3. Is it important we give the chair a comfortable ride, if at all? A. No not at all,
Question 4. THen why bring it along? A. FFFD if I know.

NOw lets look after the customer, not the chair.......
The wood from the trees boys!

The whole reason for putting the chair in the boat was from something Colin F said in that other thread about how sitting on a jockey seat for a while was quite tiring on the arms. Since wheel chairs are designed to be sat in all the time, I would have thought that that would be the most comfortable place for the person to sit. I know the person I refered to before finds sitting on vertually any seat other than her wheel chair quite uncomfortable.

Nasher many thanks for all your suggestions and help. I have PMd you.

Colin F · 24 January 2007, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

The whole reason for putting the chair in the boat was from something Colin F said in that other thread about how sitting on a jockey seat for a while was quite tiring on the arms. Since wheel chairs are designed to be sat in all the time, I would have thought that that would be the most comfortable place for the person to sit. I know the person I refered to before finds sitting on vertually any seat other than her wheel chair quite uncomfortable.

Nasher many thanks for all your suggestions and help. I have PMd you.

Tim,

I am the same, my wheelchair is more comfy than any sofa, cinema chair etc by a long way. The big thing is though while it offers support for daily use pushing around, sitting still, up kerbs, down steps etc I dont feel it would offer enough support to the back for on a boat in some conditions. At that point a higher back rest would be needed. To give you an idea, and this is again level specific, my backrest is 12" high, which includes a 3" foam cushion (squashed to 1 1/2" with my bum on). This means the top of the backrest is in the T12 / L1 area of my back, approx the top of the small of the back.

The picture of the seat 'Hamster' has used is the same as mine and works really well. I had the sides trimmed a bit extra to make geting on and off a bit easier though. I also went to ribcraft during the build stage to set the position of the seat so i reach everything easily and comfortably. As i am a bit of a shortie, it does mean my lanky friends bang their knees on the console a bit, but they adapt well

603doug · 25 January 2007, 03:06

I have been diving with quads and paras for years in all kind of seas, never in a rib thou anxious to try, a friend (para) is going to make our maiden trip this spring. Chairs have wedged into the dive boats (against the tank rack etc.) we have been on and not had a problem. The larger the rib probably the better the ride for a chair. My rib will do 40mph and I can not open it up with my wife aboard (she is able body) so we will adjust the speed to the need chair