When the sun comes out, out goes safety..

[Peter_C]

Originally Posted by matt h

havent they got hairy armpits? etc etc etc

YES! Stay away from them Oh and they never shower, and use way too much perfume.

I learned how to do a full brazilian wax She's a keeper

[matt h]

Ha Ha splendid.

[Daibheid]

Originally Posted by Will75

There are many occasions when they are just not necessary, for goodness sake!

Ok I'll bite. Maybe you'd share a few examples of many occasions you wouldn't wear a PFD on a RIB under way?
As for what business it is of mine? Have you ever searched for a body with the man's wife and children looking down on you day after day where a PFD or LJ might at least have spared them the agony of an almost hopeless search for closure?
I've had holes put in my own RIB on two occasions plus a prop strike searching rough coastlines in the worst possible conditions. I've spoken to people going to sea without a PFD and never once got a positive response. Does any of that make it my business? Not how I'd put it but it is a raw subject and no one on the thread seems to have come up with any facts or examples to rebut the specific incidences of lives lost that could have been prevented by wearing a PFD.

Nor have any falling at speed experts related first or even secondhand experience of people falling out of RIBs at speed, much less why a PFD wouldn't be a good idea when making passage.

Bottom line is PFDs like Kill Cords save lives but neither can really be enforced and I'd hate to do my boating where the authorities tried to. We are all free to wear them or not but a lot of others have to deal with the consequences when we make bad decisions.

[MustRib]

Originally Posted by Daibheid

We are all free to wear them or not but a lot of others have to deal with the consequences when we make bad decisions.

+ 1

[boristhebold]

Originally Posted by Daibheid

Ok I'll bite. Maybe you'd share a few examples of many occasions you wouldn't wear a PFD on a RIB under way?
As for what business it is of mine? Have you ever searched for a body with the man's wife and children looking down on you day after day where a PFD or LJ might at least have spared them the agony of an almost hopeless search for closure?
I've had holes put in my own RIB on two occasions plus a prop strike searching rough coastlines in the worst possible conditions. I've spoken to people going to sea without a PFD and never once got a positive response. Does any of that make it my business? Not how I'd put it but it is a raw subject and no one on the thread seems to have come up with any facts or examples to rebut the specific incidences of lives lost that could have been prevented by wearing a PFD.

Nor have any falling at speed experts related first or even secondhand experience of people falling out of RIBs at speed, much less why a PFD wouldn't be a good idea when making passage.

Bottom line is PFDs like Kill Cords save lives but neither can really be enforced and I'd hate to do my boating where the authorities tried to. We are all free to wear them or not but a lot of others have to deal with the consequences when we make bad decisions.

Nicely said, many examples of people making bad decisions, its a case of most people dont think they will need one but it always seems to be those times that something bad happens, better to wear one and not need one than need one and not have it on.

Incident about a year ago two recreational fishermen in a small dingy crossing the sheltered waters of Pool Harbour to get to their fishing boat, they fall out of the dingy, one person never recovered.

Another example - three weekens ago I was in Swanage Bay and spotted a small williams tender with three onboard going max out across a still bay, sunny weather, a tight turn and one of the women flies off out the back, she was wearing a life jacket so it self inflated and she was picked up, what hit me was she allthough ok was definately pretty shaken up by the incident and you could see she was phyiscaly shaking, if she hadnt had a life jacket on I would imagien she would have got into difficulties through panacking and the shock. So even though weather was lovely and conditions fine they had an incident and a life jacket being worn probably made a big difference and prevented further issues.

[Copinsay]

Originally Posted by MustRib

+ 1

+2

[keg]

As a newbie to ribbing, i have followed this with interest.Having sailed and kayaked for a number of years, all i can say is that personally, i would never venture onto the water without either a BA or LJ.

[PeterM]

Classic yeaterday ..a heavilly ( but not over) loaded Alumnium Linder 4m boat sunk/ swamped in the run at Mudeford. The ILB was virtually in shouting distance and the sinking boat literally tens of yards from the quay and lots of other people and boats...

The adults had LJ on and the kids didn't ....they (kids and adults) were clearly cold and shocked by the entire event - even though they were in the ILB in seconds.

I think they'll get some kids jackets now ( if they go out again!) after all its not like they are valuable ?

[keg]

It's like cyclists.

I see parents with helmets on but their children aren't wearing one....?

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Crikey, Adults who put kids in LJs but don't wear them themselves* are bad enough, but Adults only buying them for themselves is even worse i guess.

*inferring that you don't need them when you are older for whatever reason. Do as i say but not as i do.

My brother for one, who I boll**ed recently when i saw photos. He said he didn't have one, yet my neice then piped up he had said he didn't need one. They were doing a trip around Anglesey in a bayliner (bad enough) with about 5 others. I asked why he thought he didn't need one and he said it was sunny so he reckoned he could swim to shore at any point. He does no sport, is very overweight and unfit and they drank all the way around. His 10 year daughter stood more chance of swimming to shore. No radio, CG66 form or flares i'm aware of, your perfect candidate for the RNLI volunteers to have to fish out. Fell on deaf ears. Trouble is it is symptomatic of how our parents treated the sea. We had lifejackets, they didn't. They drank too, and more than a couple of refreshing beers, he has followed suit. I did too until a few years back :-(

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by keg

It's like cyclists.

I see parents with helmets on but their children aren't wearing one....?

Personally, I've always wondered about the opposite: Kids wearing helmets and parents without. Nice message to be sending.

(California has [largely unenforced] laws about kids, bikes and helmets. We don't see the parents with helmets and kids without very often.)



jky

[Iforb]

I work on a fairly simple premise when it comes to Buoyancy Aids, if it's rough enough to need waterproofs, then you need to wear them. Common sense also dictates that if you have kids and they are out on deck of a yacht on the move or out of a confined cockpit of any boat, then they wear a BA.

There are boats that the wearing of a BA is actually banned by class rules. 18ft Skiffs (stupidly fast sailing dinghy) class rules don't allow a BA since there were a number of deaths when people were trapped beneath sails and the racks couldn't dive down and get out and drowned, so a BA is not always the best thing to wear. Just use a bit of common sense about it and it'll be fine.

[ShinyShoe]

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

Crikey, Adults who put kids in LJs but don't wear them themselves* are bad enough, but Adults only buying them for themselves is even worse i guess.

It'll be the "kids refuse to wear them" reason. In otherwords I told them to put it on, they refused and instead of me saying fine get back in the car we are going home and you get no pocket money for a month to pay for the petrol you wasted getting me here to turn round. They shout, moan, scream, stamp their feet and then said responsible adult says sod it - I wanna go out on my bike, boat or whatever so I'm going...

[willk]

On a similar but entirely different note , what's with the people who have crap LJs for "visitors/guests"? WTF? If you hate them that much, don't ask them out on your boat. I wear the worst LJ on any boat I skipper - keeps me focused.

[Peter_C]

Originally Posted by willk

On a similar but entirely different note , what's with the people who have crap LJs for "visitors/guests"? WTF? If you hate them that much, don't ask them out on your boat. I wear the worst LJ on any boat I skipper - keeps me focused.

That is a valid point

We have a couple of reasonably expensive lifejackets that are self inflating (More comfortable to wear). Then the rest are more cost effective for the general regulations, but they are clean and newer. I do have a couple of Type 3 vests that are top of the line neoprene and offer those up when they fit. Depending on crew amount, and size of crew as I wear a medium, someone usually gets stuck with el cheapo, and I have been considering getting some more decent quality type 3 jackets for others to use. I think it is time to start shopping for two more decent life jackets.

Not one person had to be asked to put a lifejacket on (I think they are scared of the little boat).



Was a life jacket needed in the photo below? 62 degree water, very calm and shores close by on both sides, plus half the time you could stand up! It makes her feel safer, and knowing her, she is always handed a life jacket when out on the boat.

[stevedonna]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

It'll be the "kids refuse to wear them" reason. In otherwords I told them to put it on, they refused and instead of me saying fine get back in the car we are going home and you get no pocket money for a month to pay for the petrol you wasted getting me here to turn round. They shout, moan, scream, stamp their feet and then said responsible adult says sod it - I wanna go out on my bike, boat or whatever so I'm going...

Don't get me started on kids totalling bossing parents . Too much ' middle class love' say it mean it .


Sent from my iPad using RIB Net

[ShinyShoe]

I'm probably gonna get shot for this but ...

You gotta love that supposedly the most advanced nation in the world when asked about life jackets on RIBs almost always produces a picture of a day glow rectangle with a head hole in it. Is it any wonder people don't like wearing them they are hardly ergonomic...

I'm sure they do their job in the water and no question I'd rather be in the water with one than without. I'm sure they have a role to play for cabin boats where LJs aren't worth all the time. Just can't see them being practical for every day use... And it seems to me you may have to carry them to comply with some legislation so would you carry them and something more practical? Whereas in the UK where there is no legislation for recreational use the LJs you see worn are usually practical....

Useless unless worn...

[MustRib]

Originally Posted by ShinyShoe

I'm probably gonna get shot for this but ...

You gotta love that supposedly the most advanced nation in the world when asked about life jackets on RIBs almost always produces a picture of a day glow rectangle with a head hole in it. Is it any wonder people don't like wearing them they are hardly ergonomic...

I'm sure they do their job in the water and no question I'd rather be in the water with one than without. I'm sure they have a role to play for cabin boats where LJs aren't worth all the time. Just can't see them being practical for every day use... And it seems to me you may have to carry them to comply with some legislation so would you carry them and something more practical? Whereas in the UK where there is no legislation for recreational use the LJs you see worn are usually practical....

Useless unless worn...

+1
my experience of what we consider a lifejacket - CO2 manual/auto etc inflating,
is shockingly expensive over in the USA. A 150N model (described as "offshore")
comes in at a price of around $200 to $250 - much more expensive than in the UK.
The foam orange blocks as supplied in boats I have rented invariably come with no crotch straps,
and are possibly the most uncomfortable thing you could wear in a boat.
WestMarine have introduced some "inshore" inflating lifejackets rated at 113N
at a price of $110 each,
although I would consider 150N rating as being the minimum I would be happy with.

[Pikey Dave]

Originally Posted by MustRib

+1
my experience of what we consider a lifejacket - CO2 manual/auto etc inflating,
is shockingly expensive over in the USA. A 150N model (described as "offshore")
comes in at a price of around $200 to $250 - much more expensive than in the UK.
The foam orange blocks as supplied in boats I have rented invariably come with no crotch straps,
and are possibly the most uncomfortable thing you could wear in a boat.
WestMarine have introduced some "inshore" inflating lifejackets rated at 113N
at a price of $110 each,
although I would consider 150N rating as being the minimum I would be happy with.

I'm guessing the self interested, protectionist, treacle-like US bureaucracy is to blame. If it's not USCG approved it must be no good, & approval is probably prohibitively expensive.

[BogMonster]

I had a vivid demonstration of why proper safety kit matters the other day. It wasnt't in a RIB, and sadly it didn't end well, but bear with me.

A fisherman on a big offshore trawler was knocked over the side in an incident just after dark. It was evil out there, 35-40 knots and probably 5-6m seas. They said they were sending a helicopter out to look for him (70 miles offshore). I thought, no more than a token gesture, poor bloke will be long gone. but we had Ch16 on in the house.

The RAF were brilliant, as always, scrambled not only the SAR Sea King but a C-130 for top cover, which arrived first, and spotted a light in the water and a rescue beacon signal. Within minutes a location was given to the helicopter and the searching vessels. The Sea King turned up (it was battling 40 knot head winds) and in a relatively short time they had the guy in the helicopter.

The very sad part was that he had no immersion suit, so after 3hrs in water at about 4C he was probably nominally just alive when they got him but later passed away in the hospital. But as an illustration of being properly equipped when you're out in a boat - it was staggering to me. A helicopter not only found but rescued an unconscious man, in the dark, in 40 knot winds and huge seas 70 miles from shore. I'll never go anywhere without the PLB again.

And as an illustration of how incredible the rescue services are - it was equally staggering. The bravery of that winchman to be willingly lowered into a furious freezing sea with 20ft waves breaking over your head in pitch darkness and gale force winds is amazing. I hope they all get a commendation - but I'm sure they'd just say it was all in a day's work. I don't know what sort of rescue service there will be after the RAF Sea Kings retire - but I bet the aircrew skills are never exceeded.