which fire extinguisher

Daniel TD5 · 20 July 2004, 19:50

my job title is contacts manager

and i am a partner is a fire protection company so i should know
i can provide clients with fire risk assements or provides a deluge sprinkler
system for a power station. but i had a bit of a heated discussion about
fire extinguishers to day with our engineer i wanted to up grade my 0.6kg
dry powder with a bigger 2 kg dry powder as the little one was nicked from one of our vans and was only temp any one with a 0.6kg car type should
change over to a bigger type due to the fact it would have more impact throwing it over the side and hopeing the splash put the fire out
so which type of extinguisher to use as most are not designed for use at sea
or in the open most out door types are 9kg to big of a rib under 5m

CO2 no good out side wind would blow it away
halon the best ever but £200 pound fine per kg if the old bill find it on you
AFFF or Foam the best for fire fighting for petrol fire
dry powder very good all rounder and it floats on the sea

i went for the 2kg dry powder but the engineer wanted me to put foam in
both are free as they come from the stores what do you lot think

dan

Tight Fart · 20 July 2004, 20:06

Bottom line is have one. Anything is better than nothing at all. But a fire on a Rib, has to be serious, assuming it a petrol motor, petrol doesn't burn it explodes, I think most occupants will be straight over the side rather than stay and watch the fireworks.

David Hickman · 20 July 2004, 20:15

That's right. I have to have 2 * Dry powder 1kgs each, 2 lt foam(foam is going out as per new Code of Practices) and a fire blanket(not a coding requirement).
If I had a fire, with 40 gallons of U/L on board I would be over the side dragging my clients with me, (well I would push them first!!!!).

Boat is insured. OK a fireman pupil last week said he would try a 1 kg DP then get as far away as possible!!!!!

Pete7 · 20 July 2004, 20:17

Having tried to set light to a bath full of petrol/oil mix after AFFF had been put on the surface I have no doubt which I will always have on my boat. Amazing stuff and being a liquid that turns to foam you stand a chance of using it at sea rather than powder.

That said there is an auto clean gas one in the engine bay.

Pete

Daniel TD5 · 20 July 2004, 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete7

Having tried to set light to a bath full of petrol/oil mix after AFFF had been put on the surface I have no doubt which I will always have on my boat. Amazing stuff and being a liquid that turns to foam you stand a chance of using it at sea rather than powder.

That said there is an auto clean gas one in the engine bay.

Pete

all auto engine fire system are dry powder not foam but foam is better for
petrol i think it as to do with the type of service required for each stored
pressure dry powder can last up it 5 years being checked each year were foam as to be replaced a shorter time

dan

Pete7 · 20 July 2004, 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel TD5

all auto engine fire system are dry powder not foam but
dan

Dan, the auto fire ext is deffinately one of the new clean gas ones not dry powder.

Pete

Daniel TD5 · 20 July 2004, 21:13

pete

i get you
you have a enclosed engine bay so you can have a gas system
ie fm200 or inergen and argon all are replacements for halon but are only about 60% as good i bet the service check on that cost a bomb

dan

Tight Fart · 20 July 2004, 21:51

We use plumbed in system's in race cars, cars and boats can be replaced, people can't.
If nobody is in danger get as far away as possible and leave it to the professionals

codprawn · 20 July 2004, 22:01

It makes me sick that they stopped the Halon extinguishers - by far the most effective - carried on all public transport vehicles etc. Apparently it damages the ozone layer - and a burning car or Rib doesn't?

Another really stupid moves was to make all extinguishers red - some EU law I think. It was so much easier under the old system - Green for Halon - Red for water - black for CO2 etc - simple! In thick smoke you really don't have time to stop and read the bloody lable!!!!

I think a fire blanket would be quite usefull for an outboard fire - just chuck it over the cowl - a tailored one would be even better.

codprawn · 20 July 2004, 22:09

Actually it is NOT illegal to possess a Halon extinguisher - just to use it!!! So if you have one on your RIB and it catches fire you must sit and watch it burn.............

http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/...one/halons.htm

Just noticed some people ARE still allowed to use Halon

The list of Critical Uses of Halon, taken from Annex VII of the new EC Regulation is as follows.

Use of Halon 1301 will permitted :
In aircraft for the protection of crew compartments, engine nacelles, cargo bays and dry bays.
In military land vehicles and naval vessels for the protection of spaces occupied by personnel and engine compartments.
For the making inert of occupied spaces where flammable liquid and/or gas release could occur in the military and oil, gas and petrochemical sector, and in existing cargo ships.
For the making inert of existing manned communication and command centres of the armed forces or others, essential for national security.
For the making inert of spaces where there may be a risk of dispersion of radioactive matter.
In the Channel Tunnel and associated installations and rolling stock.

Use of Halon 1211 will be permitted :
In hand-held fire extinguishers and fixed extinguisher equipment for engines for use on board aircraft.
In aircraft for the protection of crew compartments, engine nacelles, cargo bays and dry bays.
In fire extinguishers essential to personal safety used for initial extinguishing by fire brigades.
In military and police fire extinguishers for use on persons.

Daniel TD5 · 20 July 2004, 22:18

codprawn

you are right the old BS colours ie red black cream so on were very good
and most people agree in my trade but all BS standards are to be replace with EN standards over time

as for halon we have to carry a permit for recorded waste on our van
it a £200 pound fine now for each kg you have with out a permit

a part from the MOD stuff so biggles can have one one his rib

dan

Scary Des · 21 July 2004, 08:51

In a previous job I was involved in testing fire extinguishers which were intended for use in cars, I have let off hundreds, and without doubt halon is best.

The problem you can get with powder is that the fire can continue in the less accessible parts of the engine bay, whereas with halon as long as you aim it in the rough direction it worked ever time.

Accessibility is a real issue because you need to get to the base of the fire and if that is covered by an engine cowl you will have to find some way of getting the powder in so it can to work. On my engine cover there is a port hole so you see if there is a fire and beside that a capped hole which allows you to squirt the fire extinguisher in. The only problem I see with this design is that the cap is made of steel so if there is a fire it will be red hot

and not much fun to open (must remember oven gloves next time I go out)

Des

Andy Stevens · 21 July 2004, 09:34

AFFF-what a waste of time.

The amount of rally cars i have seen burn out completely after having three or four AFFF 2 litre units sprayed on it is mind boggling.

As someone has pointed out, a burning car is far worse for the environment than squirting and extinguisher off.

I would rather pay the fine and live/save my machine than watch it burn out with useless AFFF.

On the back of the 432 APC we have on the paintball site are two lovely Halon units, they'll be coming out with me, i'd rather be skint than look like Simon Weston.

Get a halon, paint it red, stick AFFF stickers on, that's what lots of road rally boys do, bit naughty but least it works.

Bilge Rat · 21 July 2004, 10:11

great thread guys....... so which extigusher do i buy for my 4.7 metre rib ? does it have to be specifally a marine one or will any do the job ?

And are they really that worth having aboard anyway, currently when out i'm sitting on 65 litres of petrol and have a seperate 24 litres strapped to the back deck, in between this and the engine is the battery, if that lot catches fire i'm out of there pretty damn quick whether i jump over board of the thing blows

codprawn · 21 July 2004, 12:33

The best thing about Halon extinguishers is you can get them for NOTHING - trouble is they are hard to find now - just wish I had collected a load a while ago.

dangers · 21 July 2004, 13:36

Does anybody know if having a fire extinguisher on board entitles you to a reduction in insurance premium?
I have a petrol outboard and a 60 gallon fuel tank. If there was a fire, I'd get everyone in the water and as far away from the boat as possible, so the only kind of extinguisher that would work for me would be some kind of automatic one inside the cowling if there is such a thing?
Has anybody heard of/ had an experience of an outboard catching fire?

David Hickman · 21 July 2004, 13:43

Reference "all auto extinguishers are Dry Powder"

That is not the case. For Inboard engines you can get the Halon subsitute called FE 2000 I think. Insurance companies do not like DP as it can wreck the engine if powder is sucked in, despite tha fact the you may have just saved the boat from a complete burn out!!!

David Hickman · 21 July 2004, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dangers

Does anybody know if having a fire extinguisher on board entitles you to a reduction in insurance premium?
I have a petrol outboard and a 60 gallon fuel tank. If there was a fire, I'd get everyone in the water and as far away from the boat as possible, so the only kind of extinguisher that would work for me would be some kind of automatic one inside the cowling if there is such a thing?
Has anybody heard of/ had an experience of an outboard catching fire?

Yes I have heard of an outboard catching fire. A engine installer had too much length left in the cable loom and did know what to do with it so he wrapped it around the engine before putting the cover back on!!!!!!! Guess what happened next???

Pete7 · 21 July 2004, 13:45

Dangers

http://www.essexboatyards.co.uk/misc/225a.htm

Jelly · 21 July 2004, 14:50

Dangers
There was a mariner 50 4 stroke in plymouth that had an eletrical fire a few weeks ago something must have caused a short on the emectronics side and it went up. First fire extinguisher failed to fire but second one did work.
Boat towed in I think it was just wiring and plastic bits to replace.