Why lifeguard boats should have kill cords

ian parkes · 01 December 2014, 18:01

Lifeguards Lose Control Of Boat Stuck in Full Throttle - Salt Rock Ballito (Fail) - YouTube

Maybe this has been posted up before if so sorry , but it could so easily happen here .in fact iam surprised it hasn't yet.

Maximus · 01 December 2014, 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Lifeguards Lose Control Of Boat Stuck in Full Throttle - Salt Rock Ballito (Fail) - YouTube

Maybe this has been posted up before if so sorry , but it could so easily happen here .in fact iam surprised it hasn't yet.

New to me that one..Scarey Stuff!
Yep..as said many times before on here!...the positives wearing a KC have got to outweigh ANY negatives!!

willk · 01 December 2014, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

...but it could so easily happen here .in fact iam surprised it hasn't yet.

And yet it hasn't and I'm NOT that surprised. It may do at some point in the future, but I think that the chances are acceptably low - mostly because of better training and equipment in the UK and Ireland. The video shows a couple of men showing off in a boat that is not equipped for that function.

The video HAS been posted here before. I may have commented then as I will now (in a personal capacity, not in Mod mode) that I think there is a racist undertone to this video. I don't wish to delve into the politics of it and I think the video speaks volumes itself. One of the men in the boat is approached at 4:07 and grabbed, shaken and shouted at. His colleagues attempt to calm the situation and keep him moving away. Had that happened here, the assailant would have been confronted, not so in the video. Speaks volumes.

mick · 01 December 2014, 18:55

Yup been on before , you would have thought it would have had a prop guard fitted

ian parkes · 01 December 2014, 19:25

All I meant to highlight was the lack of kill cord used , and the fact that our lifeguards boats are the same .
Racist wtf

willk · 01 December 2014, 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

All I meant to highlight was the lack of kill cord used , and the fact that our lifeguards boats are the same .

That's quite clear in your OP and I understood it. My point was that those boats are not like lifeboats here. A D-class is a different beast entirely. You can still get thrown out of one - just more unlikely. A few RNLI lads DID get chucked out of one here a few years back, so it happens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Racist wtf

My personal impression of the video - not you or your post relating to it. I've watched it a few times. I think that the video editor is a disenfranchised racist and the man who abuses the crewman is probably similar. Just IMO, doesn't affect the killcord issue.

Moving on, do we know if these "surf rescue" crews normally wear killcords or was this a once off? I know the RNLI don't. What about other similar agencies elsewhere? If we feel that the RNLI should use killcords, I could possibly send them a stiff letter on RIBnet letterhead - that should ruffle a few feathers...

Poly · 01 December 2014, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

That's quite clear in your OP and I understood it. My point was that those boats are not like lifeboats here. A D-class is a different beast entirely.

But they are like the surf rescue boats the rnli life guards use in Ian's part of the world. They don't use kc's either as I understand it, and I'm sure are not immune to a little macho showing off!

mick · 01 December 2014, 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by willk

That's quite clear in your OP and I understood it. My point was that those boats are not like lifeboats here. A D-class is a different beast entirely. You can still get thrown out of one - just more unlikely. A few RNLI lads DID get chucked out of one here a few years back, so it happens.

My personal impression of the video - not you or your post relating to it. I've watched it a few times. I think that the video editor is a disenfranchised racist and the man who abuses the crewman is probably similar. Just IMO, doesn't affect the killcord issue.

Moving on, do we know if these "surf rescue" crews normally wear killcords or was this a once off? I know the RNLI don't. What about other similar agencies elsewhere? If we feel that the RNLI should use killcords, I could possibly send them a stiff letter on RIBnet letterhead - that should ruffle a few feathers...

Yeh go on rough them up a bit

Barrowboy · 01 December 2014, 20:08

Flesh is flesh, doesn't matter whether it's clothed in an RNLI dry suit or a Black Shadow, the result will be the same if a spinning prop collides with it.

I'm not privy to why the RNLI don't utilise kill-cords (if indeed they don't?) but I'm sure their Risk Assessments are 'suitable and sufficient'.

People in the service with way more experience than me, operating craft of this type, will have considered the various scenarios and assessed the probabilities and potential outcomes so personally I wouldn't bother reaching deep into the drawer for any of that metaphorical Letterhead....

Ribochet · 01 December 2014, 20:41

Here we go again

The RNLI doesn't use kill cords on their inshore lifeboats because, when the boats are operating in surf, there is a greater risk that movement from the crew could inadvertently cut the engine/s and put the crew in danger.

However, the throttle of the D class inshore lifeboat is sprung so that should the crew go overboard, the throttle will return to idle.

In the B class Atlantic inshore lifeboats there have been no incidents where all crew members have gone overboard and, in the event of a capsize with either class of boat, the engines will cut out. In addition all crew are thoroughly trained and their competence regularly assessed.

The RNLI has held an initial review of their existing policy on the use of kill cords in their B class Atlantic inshore lifeboats. The review’s conclusion was that conventional kill cords may at times put helms and crew at an unacceptable level of risk (due to inadvertent activation) when operating in more challenging sea conditions.

The RNLI is keen, however, to monitor the development of other technologies with interest.

ian parkes · 01 December 2014, 21:15

Yes same explanation for the arancias the lifeguards use . However a little 30 hp that lives on the beach and is used hard in surf every day isn't the same as a d class or similar boat that's returned to the station after each launch and lovingly cared for . The twist throttles and cables very soon become sticky on a beach environment .all that is fitted is a single return spring hooked to the throttle linkage and bolted to the casing , the kill switch is removed and replaced with an on off switch.
Also same system us being used by the surf life saving clubs which rely on volunteers for maintenance and they even race the boats .

Iam not out to knock the rnli or the lifeguards but the system is wrong IMO and I have seen close mishaps on our local beach . not even the fastest swimming lifeguard can catch a sib ticking over in gear in the surf .
A kill cord worn on the wrist of the throttle hand will stretch a long way from the throttle. Once you are that far away from the tiller you have lost control anyway

CJL · 03 December 2014, 13:03

The DoT Rescue Boat Code recognise the need for some boats not to use kill cords and in that they are unnecessary in some cases.

However it strongly suggests that if kill cord is not used then spring loaded throttle should be used to return the boat to tick over which is much safer. I do wonder how how easy this is to achieve with "stock" throttle boxes without massive costs.

Chris

Voodoo · 01 September 2022, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ribochet

Here we go again

The RNLI doesn't use kill cords on their inshore lifeboats because, when the boats are operating in surf, there is a greater risk that movement from the crew could inadvertently cut the engine/s and put the crew in danger.

However, the throttle of the D class inshore lifeboat is sprung so that should the crew go overboard, the throttle will return to idle.

In the B class Atlantic inshore lifeboats there have been no incidents where all crew members have gone overboard and, in the event of a capsize with either class of boat, the engines will cut out. In addition all crew are thoroughly trained and their competence regularly assessed.

The RNLI has held an initial review of their existing policy on the use of kill cords in their B class Atlantic inshore lifeboats. The review’s conclusion was that conventional kill cords may at times put helms and crew at an unacceptable level of risk (due to inadvertent activation) when operating in more challenging sea conditions.

The RNLI is keen, however, to monitor the development of other technologies with interest.

Blimey I didnt know that...

Matt · 01 September 2022, 15:30

Thanks for finding this - I was wondering about it too as you saw on the other thread.

There are some good remote kill cord devices these days. My boat is conventional quicksilver type killcords - one on each side. Last time out I had the engine cut out @ 60mph because a scatter cushion fell forward and knocked the passenger kill cord. That scared the crap out of me for sure - I was expecting to see a steaming pile of scrap metal in the bilge.

Sutty · 01 September 2022, 21:34

Wow, a bionic cushion that falls forward into a 60mph wind

Matt · 01 September 2022, 21:44

Happened twice. It’s the way the airflow swirls around the screen. It’ll be getting a better method of attaching the cushion in future. And I removed the passenger kill cord. Not needed in normal use anyway.

Fergus3060 · 01 September 2022, 21:57

Incidentally, the RNLI has just rolled out kill cords for both D Class and A85s. A recent review concluded that there is more merit in setting the example than the comparatively tiny risk of killing the engine by accident at exactly the wrong moment. Even then, the switch can be toggled back to 'run' and with the electric start you'd be back up and running in a couple of seconds. Good development really, although Im sure some of my salt encrusted colleagues won't like the change

Matt · 01 September 2022, 22:05

Do you have any insight why they selected a manual process rather than radio tag options? They look interesting, but it’s always good to understand all the perspectives.

Fergus3060 · 01 September 2022, 22:20

They trialled a few options including the bluetooth devices, and they trialled them in various conditions/locations nationally. I think they determined that simple is effective at the end of the day, and value for money has to play a part too.

fastasfox · 02 September 2022, 08:38

I watched this four years back...totally forgot I watched it though but I must have because I have seen a four year old comment of mine. Next time you stuff up out on the water just remember your only human and even the RNLI get it wrong from time to time.
I watched an RNLI display at an open day on Skegness beach and four RNLI volunteers launched a Sib (not a D class) off the beach. There were small breakers rolling in and before they could get in they filled it up with water making it difficult to launch....they got in a right state. They managed to get it out but the helm was revving the nuts off the poor mariner two stroke. The best part was I was stood behind a proud family member who was trying to gloss over the F$# up lol. I have it on video if anyone can instruct me how to upload videos on here.