Xs500

[Poly]

I'm no boating vat expert but, you should only be able to reclaim input vat on purchases which will lead to vatable output supplies. As a result my understanding is input vat could only be claimed on a boat if the boat was being used commercially (and coded accordingly).

[whisper]

Originally Posted by Poly

I'm no boating vat expert but, you should only be able to reclaim input vat on purchases which will lead to vatable output supplies. As a result my understanding is input vat could only be claimed on a boat if the boat was being used commercially (and coded accordingly).

Good point Poly. Also the depreciation of a boat over the first few years is more than the value of the VAT.

Plus when you sell it you will have to charge VAT on the secondhand sale price?

[Barrowboy]

Originally Posted by Poly

I'm no boating vat expert but, you should only be able to reclaim input vat on purchases which will lead to vatable output supplies. As a result my understanding is input vat could only be claimed on a boat if the boat was being used commercially (and coded accordingly).

....or the company can buy the rib, claim the entire VAT amount back under the Capital allowance for plant and machinery (assuming it costs more than £3k) and make it available for use by employees, excluding any form of hire or reward (commercial use).

HMRC states the following:

'To qualify for plant and machinery allowances, all the following must apply:

you must have incurred capital expenditure on the provision of plant and machinery that is used wholly or partly for the purposes of your business.

You must own the asset in question as a result of incurring that expenditure

the asset must not be something you buy and sell by way of your trade, although you might eventually sell it for some other reason - you may then have to make an adjustment to your capital allowances.

The asset must also not get used up in producing what you sell or supply by way of your trade

the asset must generally be expected to last for more than two years'

ps: I'm not an accountant.

[andyces]

Originally Posted by Poly

I'm no boating vat expert but, you should only be able to reclaim input vat on purchases which will lead to vatable output supplies. As a result my understanding is input vat could only be claimed on a boat if the boat was being used commercially (and coded accordingly).

Hi yes your correct but we do have a contract with the National Trust on Brownsea Island in Poole Harbour that we need to be able to access by boat if required thus we are legitamely able to do this

Cheers

Andy

[andyces]

Originally Posted by Barrowboy

....or the company can buy the rib, claim the entire VAT amount back under the Capital allowance for plant and machinery (assuming it costs more than £3k) and make it available for use by employees, excluding any form of hire or reward (commercial use).

HMRC states the following:

'To qualify for plant and machinery allowances, all the following must apply:

you must have incurred capital expenditure on the provision of plant and machinery that is used wholly or partly for the purposes of your business.

You must own the asset in question as a result of incurring that expenditure

the asset must not be something you buy and sell by way of your trade, although you might eventually sell it for some other reason - you may then have to make an adjustment to your capital allowances.

The asset must also not get used up in producing what you sell or supply by way of your trade

the asset must generally be expected to last for more than two years'

ps: I'm not an accountant.

No accountant but your exactly right !

[Poly]

Originally Posted by andyces

No accountant but your exactly right !

Possibly, although I'm sceptical that without the information you've added about your Nat trust contract that it ticks the 'used in the line of business' part.

Does it become a benefit in kind if used personally too?

Have you had a vat inspection, they are pretty thorough. I'd want it in writing from my accountant so that if an inspector disagrees you can show you were acting on advice. If they think YOU are taking the p they will dig deeper and deeper.

Originally Posted by andyces

Hi yes your correct but we do have a contract with the National Trust on Brownsea Island in Poole Harbour that we need to be able to access by boat if required thus we are legitamely able to do this

Cheers

Andy

Presumably you've looked into the coding requirements for using your boat for this?

[cjj216]

Whispers advice is sound.
Just something to consider. Most have advised on jockey seats.
I've had 4 ribs. My Avon adventure decision was influenced by my wife who wanted something more leisure based - Bench seats etc,
Turned out to be what she wanted and not what we needed.
As soon as it chopped up and you exceeded 15 knots, the bench seat became an uncomfortable and sometimes dangerous place to be. The occupants choosing to stand and hold on to the back of the 2 jockeys.
Even my wife couldn't wait to get rid. Her only request on next boat....."make sure it has 4 jockey seats"!
Most people sit on tubes or side on the jockeys when fishing.

[bingosucks]

a mate has an xs500 and i`m very impressed by it! 4 jockey seats not sure its big enough for a bench seat though ?
i know ribx have a demonstrator for sale but clueless on performance ..looks nice mind and they are a british company
safety wise i sandwich my 4 year old daughter on a jockey seat and it tends to work well for us with the mrs strapped on a fishing box as a suicide seat

[Boats&Outboards]

I'd suggest you go look at each model 3 or 5 years old. See how they've aged. It might just help you decide, based on re-sale value when your ready to upgrade.

[andyces]

Originally Posted by bingosucks

a mate has an xs500 and i`m very impressed by it! 4 jockey seats not sure its big enough for a bench seat though ?
i know ribx have a demonstrator for sale but clueless on performance ..looks nice mind and they are a british company
safety wise i sandwich my 4 year old daughter on a jockey seat and it tends to work well for us with the mrs strapped on a fishing box as a suicide seat

Yeah sounds like a plan maybe not strap the Mrs on the suicide seat haha!
Coming round to the thought of jockey seats I see ribeye manage to squezze a bench seat behind the jockey seats for passengers

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Nick Hearne

I would suggest ribeye 500 (well I would as I like them)too but new you are nearly twice your budget
Can't quite see your budget streching to a new 5m with trailer!

Originally Posted by andyces

Would like a ribeye too but would rather move on from a rib if i was spending that much.
I have the deal on the new XS500 already quoted and within budget with trailer and mercury engine just a case of finding out a bit more about them and having a go in one before i commit

Is the Ribeye really twice the price of the XS?

How does the spec compare?

[sib]

XS, yes no probs with that brand...good, solid and well priced.

[Nick Hearne]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

Is the Ribeye really twice the price of the XS?

How does the spec compare?

Big difference in standard specification, Ribeye do put a very comprehensive package together!

[John Kennett]

Indeed, and I know which I'd prefer

It's a big difference in price though. If you take the motor out of the pricing, which I guess is somewhere around half of the OP's budget and will be near enough the same in both packages, that makes the Ribeye three times the price of the XS. That buys a whole lot of finishing touches!

[two stroke mick]

I saw a xs 500 at the dublin boat show about 5 years ago. I was impressed with the robust nature of the build. It had a 60 hp outboard with a big foot gearbox. I would have thought that a big foot gearbox was a stange gearbox type for an rib

TSM

[ashbypower]

XS are a good strong boat, which handles well and quite forgiving, but as with any boat does have limitations, having said that a sensible helm's limitations are usually less then the boats. They have plenty of potential for customisation, i.e. seating arrangements, S/S et al. I personally would not want a Bench seat on a 5m.. The 500 is not from the new sports range but from the original designs, you also have a choice of tube material as well. And before anyone asks YES I have driven a XS 4.8 through to 8.5.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

If you take the motor out of the pricing, which I guess is somewhere around half of the OP's budget and will be near enough the same in both packages,

There is nearly £2k difference between the RRP cost of a Yamaha F80 and the equivalent Merc.

[John Kennett]

From figures that I have researched the real world difference looks to be more like a grand. If we said £8k for a Yam and £7k for the Merc, and allow another £1k on each package for the trailer, then at £15k all in the XS costs £7k.

If the Ribeye package is £30k then the boat itself works out at £21k, which is three times the price of the XS. Do you reckon those figures are about right?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by John Kennett

From figures that I have researched the real world difference looks to be more like a grand. If we said £8k for a Yam and £7k for the Merc, and allow another £1k on each package for the trailer, then at £15k all in the XS costs £7k.

aye near enough although I hope you work out my bonus with more precision! You are assuming Ribeye discount their Yams as much as other vendors do! They may not see the need to because they don't let you pick an engine vendor so are removed from the competition.

If the Ribeye package is £30k then the boat itself works out at £21k, which is three times the price of the XS. Do you reckon those figures are about right?

The Ribeye price list is here: http://www.espar.co.uk/Images/PDF-Ri...s-JAN-2011.pdf it is a little out of date, but sounds like its not changed much.

XS helpfully provide their price lists too XS Ribs Pricing for Boats Accessories, Packages New Inflatable Craft, Download PDF Price List Specification - that shows the bare XS500 at £8695 inc VAT

But yes the Ribeye is eye-wateringly expensive for a 5m boat! Not sure how the two hold their relative resale value.

[John Kennett]

Originally Posted by Poly

I hope you work out my bonus with more precision!

Have I ever got it wrong? Those calculations are much easier anyway