Yachties get a slaped wrist / Ribs in Fog?

jools · 29 May 2003, 21:25

That nice QHM in Portsmouth sent me this today

Quote:

QHM has issued the following Safety Bulletin
--------------------------------------------

Wednesday 28 May was the first day since Easter when Fog Routine was in force in the harbour and a large number of yachts were underway. Many of these yachts were not radar fitted but they nonetheless chose to leave the harbour without navigation lights burning and without making sound signals, this led to a number of very close shaves in the harbour entrance. The weather forecast would have told them the fog would be clear by late morning and they should have delayed their departures accordingly. Alternatively if there was an urgent reason to get underway then lights and fog signals are mandatory in the fog not optional. One yacht and one yacht only chose to call Harbour Control and ask for a visibility report in the harbour entrance and then he delayed his departure until the fog had cleared. Your attention is drawn to LNTM 16-02 (Movements in Poor Visibility).

A full list of LNTMs can be found at http://www.qhmportsmouth.com/LNTM/lntm.htm

Dated 29 May 2003

Naughty yachties

Anyway this leads me on to what us Ribs should do in poor visability - how many have sound signals? - Most of us have Nav lights - and would use them in poor visability anyway (I hope!), but what about the sound?

David Hickman · 29 May 2003, 22:02

Honest truth, in poor vis I do use sound signals and nav lights. If I don't use them then I am setting a very bad impression to other boat users as an RYA School.
I do have a radar reflector as part of coding. But if you have radar then you are required to use it. You must use "all possible means to avoid collision!"
Its all very well using a GPS/plotter but it does not show you the supertanker moored in the middle of Torbay!

Garygee · 30 May 2003, 12:21

Hi folks

I carry a "decent" radar reflector and a fog horn.
I say decent as I belive that not all radar reflectors are up to the job, and on a RIB you cant even get the advantage of height.

The fog horn is a gas cartridge type, However I am not sure, to be honest, how long the gas cartridge would last if we had to keep using for long periods.

I was going to fit radar but I have serious worries about scanner height. The idea of a transmitter firing 1.5KW pulses of at head height really worried me, hence I did not fit. If I could get it heigh enough I would fit but dont think it possible given the current/most A frames.

As far a nav light goes, thats just common sense.
Day or night you cant go wrong if they are on.

So as far as fog goes, i would not choose to go out in fog if I had not already set of, if I was out then you have no choice but I would consider, turning back or changing port/destination if that was fog bound. At sea I think you stand a good chance, when all the boats come together at a port/marine etc that when I would get worried.

Regards Gary

karlT · 30 May 2003, 15:20

Two yachts have been run down by a coaster and a container ship in past few days,

First was at 0330 SW of Plymouth and vessel dismasted limped into plymouth. This was 60 ft and would definitely of been radar conspicuous

Second - was further up the channel and vessel sank so people got into liferaft and got picked up by sea cat to guernsey

thewavehumper · 01 June 2003, 13:17

Doesn't everybodyy carry at least a portable air horn or a manual Hooter (TRUMP?)

If you don't then all gadgets has then on sale quite cheaply

Windchill · 05 June 2003, 10:06

I always carry a horn, but found the CO2 type to fail after a while - the plastic becomes brittle from the cold. I have just bought an "eco horn", same shape etc as the CO2 type, but "rechargeable" using a bicycle pump up to 80psi. Minimal risk of failure, and no need to carry heavy cans of beans!!

Secondly, what sort radar reflector can anyone recomed to fit my Humber - single 2" dia "A" frame, so can't fit anything too heavy.

Charles · 05 June 2003, 11:52

I was fortunate to be involved in a demo for this piece of kit - sure beats anything else on the market. Sea-Me
Brian, I forgot to forward these details to you, have a look around this site, very worthwhile.

Manos · 05 June 2003, 12:17

Sounds like a good piece of equipment. Any ideas how much it costs??

UPPPPPSSSSSSS just found it £ 457.99 (inclusive vat!!) if you buy it in the UK £ 477.99 if you buy it in Greece (suppose postage charges).

Isn't it a bit on the steep side??

thewavehumper · 05 June 2003, 12:26

A trump is a vey loud human powered Fog horn, I think they cost a fiver and are a good backups for the CO2 types.

Those of yoy that know me will appreciate I have experienced no difficulty in operating the Trump.

Garygee · 05 June 2003, 13:06

Hi folks

the SEE-ME got a good review BUT it only works on X Band radars, and not on S band.

And guess one is better when the weather gets bad and in rain yes its S band. Although I belive most ships would run both toghther.

Also I dont belive is covers you under the new requirements for radar reflectors as it only works on the one band, So i belive you also need to carry a normal radar reflector as well.

and Yes Manos I thought they was expensive as well.

Regards Gary

Aging Youth · 05 June 2003, 13:25

Hi everyone,

Well as the rest of the replies, I carry Nav lights plus Gas operated fog horn. However, not been on the water to experience visibility poor enough to use them.

However, I would not like to be runing around in a fast Rib when conditions are that bad.

Surely we are not that stupid or am I being too naive?

From what I heard over radio at the w/end the same cannot be said for some yachties who were so determined to get on the water they forgot all the safety rules of good seamanship.

I feel for the poor sod who has to go out and rescue them when it all goses wrong.

regards

Charles · 05 June 2003, 13:59

Hi Manos
Yes, it is a bit pricey £382.00 to me in CI. I have put a number of questions to the manufacturer and will post these as soon as I have had a reply.

Cheers

Julian · 05 June 2003, 15:38

We ran into very heavy fog at the weekend 30 miles of Cherbourg, The fog did not clear until we were 3 miles out of Cherbourg harbour, It was quite scary being in the shipping lanes especially as we did have a radar reflector fitted at the time. A few ribs nearly got hit by a fat ferry and a huge tanker that was traveling in the lanes. I ran through the fog at 20 knots , my idea was that if your going to crash into a ferry it doesnt matter how fast your going.

Radar reflector is now fitted, would like a radar at some point as well

Julian

Aging Youth · 06 June 2003, 07:45

Hi Julian,

Following on from your note, The yatch that was sliced in two by a tanker in fog last week had a radar reflector on top of his mast.

The 2 Tankers that collided in the English Channel Had Radar

The second ship that collided with the sunken tanker had Radar on!

Enough said I think

Happy playtimes & Safe Fun even in FOG.

Regards

Charles · 06 June 2003, 11:42

I posed a number of questions to Peter Munro (MD) re the Sea-Me. Here is the answer which is self-explanatory:

Dear Charles,

Thank you for your interest in the Sea-me Radar Target Enhancer.

SOLAS 5 requires all boats, where practical, under 150 tons to carry a radar reflector or other means (eg a radar target enhancer) to enable detection by ships navigating by radar at both X and S Bands. It also requires ships over 300 tons to carry X Band radar and those over 3000 tons also to carry S Band radar. It follows that X band is the predominant radar.

From my discussions with the masters of ships over 3000 tons I believe that you are right to say that they will use both radars - this is certainly true of the Condor ferries for example. It is also fair to say that S Band is better than X Band at penetrating very heavy rain although this advantage only occurs in very heavy rain. It is worth noting that X Band, because the wavelength is shorter, has better resolution than S Band. This is why targets appear "blobby" on an S Band screen and why they can in fact merge together.

The legal interpretation of the SOLAS reflector requirement has yet to be tested in the courts and so the definition of "if practical" is not clear. The requirement does not specify the performance of a reflector and so it is not clear just what we are supposed to put up the mast. My own view is that I want to maximise my radar visibility. At X Band I can do this by using a target enhancer whilst at S Band I can only, today, use a passive reflector. Personally I use both, which is both the best I can do to meet SOLAS 5 and which also means that I have maximised my chances of being detaected by the predominant radar, X Band.

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Peter Munro

dgpw · 06 June 2003, 14:08

Yes ships do collide with radar and with radar reflectors. The problem is that radar does not stop you hitting something it just shows it up on the screen. It requires someone to be watching which is the law but does not always happen. Having a radar reflector can not heart you all it can do is make you more visible. I try to carry as much saftey kit as possible.

Question

How many more ships/ boats would colide if no one had a radar reflector?