Yam or Mariner on a 4m rib?

tacker · 31 May 2012, 12:50

If money was no object and you were kitting out a 4m rib with a new 50hp 4 stroke EFI, would you go for a Mariner or Yamaha engine?

I ask because I'm looking at buying a used boat, and the owner suggests that Mariner (as fitted) is preferable, and that's reflected in the asking price.

I've always assumed Yamaha to be the best, as reflected in the new cost (around £1k more). But maybe he's right, and more users prefer Mariner, not just because they're cheaper?

PeterM · 31 May 2012, 13:08

Look at the local commercial boats and most if not all run either Yam or Honda. I'venever heard of a major problems with any of thier EFI engines in the 40-60hp range

I think they win due to their endless related engine experiance in all the other stuff they make - cars, bikes, quads, snow mobiles, jetski, generators etc etc

I am not sure the smaller Mercury/ Mariner engines of this sort of age 2006 ish were as 'clever' as the Yams or had the same sort of build /reliability. Having said that my 50 Yam is not the most slimline of engines at a hefty 115kg ! Not sure how the others compare to this ? If its to go on a 4m Adventure it may be a weight question between the merc & yam - lighter is defo better.

I'm in no way against Merc/mariner having had a couple and used others & been impressed , but these were the bigger HPs.

This is all just my opinion based nothing more than what I see about and personal experiance. As always I'm happy to be shot down and proved wrong....

OH and if I had choice now I'd probably go 40 etec .!.....

9D280 · 31 May 2012, 13:28

There is a chance they might be one & the same lump with a paint job......

Mariners have traditionally (since the 70s at any rate) been resprayed Yams or Mercs. I forget when things moved around, but the late 70s / early 80s 50-ish HP Mariners were Yams.....

What's best for you might boil down to the local (or not) dealer(s).

PeterM · 31 May 2012, 13:59

If its one of the 2 on B&O I'd suggest the more expensive one is over priced by maybe £750 - £1000 (considering it seems a fairly basic fit) . The other is more realistic ( but is an older boat).

tacker · 31 May 2012, 14:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterM

If its one of the 2 on B&O I'd suggest the more expensive one is over priced by maybe £750 - £1000 (considering it seems a fairly basic fit) . The other is more realistic ( but is an older boat).

Thanks - it's the £7500 one, in nice condition with the basic Outhill console with side seat and Mariner 50. My feeling is that it's priced for a Yam - hence my question about Yams / Mariners.

thomas · 31 May 2012, 14:36

Yamaha seem to be the top end of the market and probably make the best engines, they certainly make a boat more desirable and they sell more quickly.

For some reason, as said, commercial users tend to go Yamaha but on race boats you see more Mercs. I run a Mercury 115 and I'm completely happy with it and it's a lot lighter than the same size Yamaha.

£7,500 is far too much, look what an extra £2k will get you.....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6-6-mtr-RI...#ht_500wt_1413

...or £6,750 for this http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/YXZvbis0...ailer.html#top

and another, but not sure if it still available - http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/ZndvMzE1...DVENTURER.html

PeterM · 31 May 2012, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacker

Thanks - it's the £7500 one, in nice condition with the basic Outhill console with side seat and Mariner 50. My feeling is that it's priced for a Yam - hence my question about Yams / Mariners.

Even with a 50 Yam I'd still say its £750 + too much. Points of note I'd be pointing out to negotiate over : - no Aframe / lights/ No fixed radio , or plotter. I guess basic gauges - just revs ? When you could get revs , speed , depth etc . Has it got ski eyes fitted already ? Does it have a bilge pump of any kind as it will fill with water if you are skiing etc which is easier to get out by flicking a switch.

Is it rigged with cables on or beneath the deck - no biggy but neater below deck.

When was the battery fitted ? If its the original 2006 one I doubt it will last much longer and wil need changing in the next year ot two at a guess

It is as you say the basic outhill console . While I have never had a problem with them as they are designed for light leaisure use ( same as the boat) they are not overly 'solid'. The console with a screen and stainless surround make a much more usefull set up with more to hold on to when moving about the boat.

And while not a biggy the overall cover is useful , but to get the smaller ones for seats and console is handy as you can tow with them on and easier to put on if you ever leave the boat on the water etc .

Hope this helps , but feel free to PM me ...

Pete

PeterM · 31 May 2012, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

For some reason, as said, commercial users tend to go Yamaha but on race boats you see more Mercs. I run a Mercury 115 and I'm completely happy with it and it's a lot lighter than the same size Yamaha.

£7,500 is far too much, look what an extra £2k will get you.....

6.6 mtr RIB Boat .Yamaha 115 HP 4 Stroke Engine Including Braked Trailer | eBay

...or £6,750 for this 2006 Avon Adventure 400 Yamaha F50 Trailer For Sale - GBP 6,750 - Lymington, UK - Boatshop24.co.uk

Hmm not sure I fancy a boat made by BABU........and the price for the Avons is just what market will support - very hard to compare them purely on price.

If you need to get it in a garage 6.6 is a looong garage ! Think that boats a classic example of outhil lbeing very unsuitable --- they will break in a decent 6.6m hull when it gets rough. ( but then again so may the hull of unknown make?)

Race boys i think like the fact that the merc race engines are 2 strokes ( XR) unless you get to Verado time. I loved my Opti & also the verados

I'm not saying you cant get a bigger boat for not much more money - they just are into a differing class/use/ cost etc.

thomas · 31 May 2012, 15:17

I was trying to highlight the fact that 7,5k starts to take you to a different league.

PeterM · 31 May 2012, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

I was trying to highlight the fact that 7,5k starts to take you to a different league.

Absolutely ! there are some great boats about for 8k .

I wish I still had a mooring and space etc etc to have one again. I think they price differance starts to show the increased cost of owner ship of a 'bigger' boat - they just cost more to run and maintain/keep than the boats up to say 5m ish long.

Give me six months and I'll be on here saying I've just bought another 7m RIB ( hopefully ! )

- never have too many boats !

Downhilldai · 31 May 2012, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacker

If money was no object and you were kitting out a 4m rib with a new 50hp 4 stroke EFI, would you go for a Mariner or Yamaha engine?

I ask because I'm looking at buying a used boat, and the owner suggests that Mariner (as fitted) is preferable, and that's reflected in the asking price.

I've always assumed Yamaha to be the best, as reflected in the new cost (around £1k more). But maybe he's right, and more users prefer Mariner, not just because they're cheaper?

Why are you asking peoples' opinions on the comparison of new motors now, when you're actually making a decision on older, used ones?

Downhilldai · 31 May 2012, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterM

I am not sure the smaller Mercury/ Mariner engines of this sort of age 2006 ish were as 'clever' as the Yams or had the same sort of build /reliability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomas

Yamaha seem to be the top end of the market and probably make the best engines,

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9D280

There is a chance they might be one & the same lump with a paint job......

Now we're getting somewhere. Not right on the money, but close.

Searider · 31 May 2012, 17:42

Was on the Itchenor Ferry a couple of weeks ago. he has a 50hp Yamaha on it with over 4000 hours on it and is very happy. Rates it far better than the Hondas he had been using previously.

tacker · 01 June 2012, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Why are you asking peoples' opinions on the comparison of new motors now, when you're actually making a decision on older, used ones?

I asked it that way because the seller is translating his perception of Mariner and Yamaha - from when he bought new in 2006 - to the value he perceives of his boat now. So I an aiming to show him what others think, in the same position.

Downhilldai · 01 June 2012, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacker

I asked it that way because the seller is translating his perception of Mariner and Yamaha - from when he bought new in 2006 - to the value he perceives of his boat now. So I an aiming to show him what others think, in the same position.

Products will have changed over the last 6 years though, so the comparison isn't on even terms.

Is the 2006 Yam EFi?

tacker · 01 June 2012, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Products will have changed over the last 6 years though, so the comparison isn't on even terms.

Is the 2006 Yam EFi?

Thanks - the boat has a Mariner 50 EFI 4 stroke; there is no Yam.

Seller says: "The reason mine is so valued is that it has a 50HP Mariner engine. This I know is better valued/sought after than a Yamaha. "

So, because I believe he has the Yam / Mariner comparison the wrong way around (Yam is £1k more expensive, new), I wanted to canvas other opinions here and present them in support of my offer to him. And yes, I am assuming Yam has always been more expensive than Mariner - maybe I am wrong.

thomas · 01 June 2012, 10:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacker

Thanks - the boat has a Mariner 50 EFI 4 stroke; there is no Yam.

Seller says: "The reason mine is so valued is that it has a 50HP Mariner engine. This I know is better valued/sought after than a Yamaha. "

So, because I believe he has the Yam / Mariner comparison the wrong way around (Yam is £1k more expensive, new), I wanted to canvas other opinions here and present them in support of my offer to him. And yes, I am assuming Yam has always been more expensive than Mariner - maybe I am wrong.

Nothing to do with having it the wrong way round, anyone selling anything will try and tell you what they have is better than something else so you'll buy it, if he was honest and said the Yam was better and his boat was £2k over priced then he's not have much chance of selling it.

clydeoutboards · 01 June 2012, 10:45

If you go by price then is Yam (highest being best)
if you go by warranty its Honda
If you go by what the commercial boats use then its Yam/ Honda ( we dont see much else up here)

Having said that it all comes down to how the engine has been looked after so I would take that far more into consideration than the badge on the hood.

Downhilldai · 01 June 2012, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacker

Thanks - the boat has a Mariner 50 EFI 4 stroke; there is no Yam.

Seller says: "The reason mine is so valued is that it has a 50HP Mariner engine. This I know is better valued/sought after than a Yamaha. "

So, because I believe he has the Yam / Mariner comparison the wrong way around (Yam is £1k more expensive, new), I wanted to canvas other opinions here and present them in support of my offer to him. And yes, I am assuming Yam has always been more expensive than Mariner - maybe I am wrong.

Right then, here we go:

The 25hp & 50/60hp 4-strokes were developed under a joint venture between Yam & Merc ,where Merc supplied the powerheads and the individual manufacturers used their own mids, lower units, controls, etc.

Around 2002/3, Merc developed the 50/60hp motors further by incorporating EFi, but did not sell this system on to Yam, so at this stage, the Merc is more advanced than the Yam. With EFi also came Smartcraft compatibility, so the Merc/Mariner units also had this option, while the Yam continued to run on carbs.

As an aside, Merc later went on to develop a new 3 cylinder EFi 25/30hp motor, but again, Yam were left to continue using the old 2-cylinder carb engine for their 25hp.

And people think Yam are superior to Merc......

PeterM · 01 June 2012, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Right then, here we go:

The 25hp & 50/60hp 4-strokes were developed under a joint venture between Yam & Merc ,where Merc supplied the powerheads and the individual manufacturers used their own mids, lower units, controls, etc.

Around 2002/3, Merc developed the 50/60hp motors further by incorporating EFi, but did not sell this system on to Yam, so at this stage, the Merc is more advanced than the Yam. With EFi also came Smartcraft compatibility, so the Merc/Mariner units also had this option, while the Yam continued to run on carbs.

As an aside, Merc later went on to develop a new 3 cylinder EFi 25/30hp motor, but again, Yam were left to continue using the old 2-cylinder carb engine for their 25hp.

And people think Yam are superior to Merc......

So how come my 2006 yam has EFI ? 'around 2002/3' is irrelavant as its a 2006 engine in question, (as is what they did with a 25hp) - which by this logic was still running 2002/3 tech Efi , where as I think Yam had a 'new' system on thier late 05 and 06 engines - therefore being some 2-3 years newer technology then merc/mariner , yamaha (doubtless) pulled apart all the other engine EFI systems to see what was good and what was not ?

You seem in particularly cantankerous mood DHD