Yellow Buoys in Osborne Bay

[C2 RIBS]

I took a look at these buoys today and there were boats anchored inside the yellow buoys which are very long way off shore and cannot be claimed as for swimmers protection

[Pete7]

Didn't realise they were mooring bouys, EH will be impressed with that

[m chappelow]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

I took a look at these buoys today and there were boats anchored inside the yellow buoys which are very long way off shore and cannot be claimed as for protection

Interesting point,
Wonder what the legal( duty of care ) outcome would be if some swimmer drowned going too far out to the bouyed off area so far from shore thinking that because its a swimming area its safe to do so or is there any safety cover lifeguard ect .

[C2 RIBS]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Didn't realise they were mooring bouys, EH will be impressed with that

Yes two were used as mooring buoys, one being a J109 yacht who had folded his spinnaker around the forestay, we were able to help him with a yacht skipper with me

There were about three boats moored with anchors inside the area still a long way from shore, but there was a very small red SIB/RIB from a yacht pulling kids in a ringo in this area

[thomas]

If they were to mark a swimming area they'd be much smaller and more of them, my guess these are marking a boundary and the next step will be EH trying to enforce a no go zone as they're not content with just stopping boats landing on the beach, they want rid of them from view.

[HughN]

Originally Posted by thomas

If they were to mark a swimming area they'd be much smaller and more of them, my guess these are marking a boundary and the next step will be EH trying to enforce a no go zone as they're not content with just stopping boats landing on the beach, they want rid of them from view.

...unless they are of genuine Victorian design and construction and crewed exclusively by people in period dress - preferably with scurvy and syphilis.

Although to be fair things like the refinery are more of a problem for the view than a few boats.

[James Slatter]

All quiet is osbourne bay. Megaphone man is without his megaphone and standing arms crossed on the beach. 3 boats anchored 50 yards from the shore. Only problem is the suns not shining now we are here

[Paul Cannell]

Originally Posted by thomas

If they were to mark a swimming area they'd be much smaller and more of them, my guess these are marking a boundary and the next step will be EH trying to enforce a no go zone as they're not content with just stopping boats landing on the beach, they want rid of them from view.

You've hit the nail on the head, they set a precedence and then get a bye law, exclusion by stealth.

[jezza2011]

Sooo How many ribs can we line up across the beach lol

[chris.moody]

Went and had a look at the buoys in Osborne Bay yesterday. I was surprised how far out from the shore they were.

No sign of megaphone man. We did enter the buoyed area, after checking carefully for long distance swimmers, just to see if he would jump out from under the shrubbery :o)

[C2 RIBS]

Well English Heritics sorry Heritage have changed the yellow buoys in Osbourne Bay and they are now even further out and labelled as "swimming area". Well having seen some clients swim to the shore from yachts and cruisers this swimming area is massive and I would say generallly way to far out to be safe.

If EH are assigning this as a swimming area (forget the RYA and legalities of doing so) where are their lifeguards and rescue options? They have identified this area for swimming but the tide flows very fast out that far!

Safe to say there are still boats anchored inside the area today and no one can stop them.

[L'escargot]

QUEEN'S HARBOUR MASTER PORTSMOUTH

LOCAL NOTICE TO MARINERS

No 77/12
PERMANENT MARKER BUOYS OSBORNE BAY

NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN by the Queen’s Harbour Master Portsmouth, that four yellow permanent lit marker buoys will be laid in Osborne Bay Friday 12 October 2012 replacing the temporary buoys in the following positions:
Buoy 1: 50 45.445N 001 15.225W
Buoy 2: 50 45.425N 001 15.190W
Buoy 3: 50 45.405N 001 15.156W
Buoy 4: 50 45.384N 001 15.122W
Mariners are advised to keep clear of these marker buoys in the approaches to Osborne Bay.
Cancel this Local Notice To Mariners Mon 15th Oct 2012 (1 days)
Thu 11th Oct 2012
Semaphore Tower
HM Naval Base, Portsmouth.
N J Hare
Commander Royal Navy
Queen's Harbour Master

Queen's Harbour Master - Portsmouth - Local Notices To Mariners

[TonyC]

That's good wording - so they're laying 4 buoys and your advised to keep clear of the buoys, nothing about going inside them though...

[C2 RIBS]

Agree Tony, we kept well clear coming I'm from theEast and leaving western side close to fort, we passed two boats at anchor inside. Not sure that notice tells you do do anything else.
I guess RYA are still involved advising that access cannot be stopped

[ShinyShoe]

Since the LOCAL notice is cancelled today, I'm assuming some non-LOCAL notice is taking over? (since they are described as permenant).

My guess will be the non-local version will define the entry rules...

[tim griffin]

Originally Posted by C2 RIBS

If EH are assigning this as a swimming area (forget the RYA and legalities of doing so) where are their lifeguards and rescue options? They have identified this area for swimming but the tide flows very fast out that far!

It's a private beach the legal bit is as you have to pay to use the beach then as the operators of the beach EH should have a duty of care to said users in the provision of lifeguards or making the beach as safe as possible .
Tim

[Poly]

Originally Posted by tim griffin

It's a private beach the legal bit is as you have to pay to use the beach then as the operators of the beach EH should have a duty of care to said users in the provision of lifeguards or making the beach as safe as possible .
Tim

Would their argument not be that this is exactly what they are doing? Their risk assesment says risk from mixing swimmers and boats so they are segregating them? Since when did every beach need lifeguards?

[C2 RIBS]

I will be interested in the outcome of this popular area. It is clear the RYA have challenged EH and advised members accordingly that this is presently unenforceable.
I agree that we all need to take care in area but mostly this has been an anchoring area for yachts and boats of all sizes and regular swimming from these boats with floating lines to the stern to aid them back to their boats when tides are strong

I quote from RYA

Gus Lewis, head of legal and government affairs at the RYA, said: "We have received a number of reports from boaters that they have been instructed by a representative of English Heritage from the beach in Osborne Bay that they are not allowed to anchor in or close to the marked swimming area.

"Clearly, if there is an area marked out for swimming then boaters will need to take particular care if they choose to navigate or anchor in this area. However, English Heritage has no authority to prohibit anchoring anywhere in Osborne Bay and its staff have no power to require anchored boats to move.

"We have written to English Heritage to challenge the actions of its representatives in demanding that boats anchored in Osborne Bay are moved."

The bigger picture for me for EH is enforcement and also safety cover. They have nominated a very large area for swimming including an area where a private dwelling on the beach is (small fort). The distance out is to these buoys is huge and further I guess then those marked in Poole Beach areas.
I agree that beaches dont all have safety cover, but this has been marked as a swimming area after opening said beach to the paying public and therefore they will have a vicarious liability (I believe)

[m chappelow]

On a private beach unless its a very busy resort type of beach I don't think it's compulsory to provide lifeguard or rescue boat cover as long as risk assessment has been done ,
Duty of care !
Public rescue equipment fitted or available on site such as life rings or throw bags & a first aid kit and telephone may cover that .

Perhaps loud hailer man armed with a first aid certificate & a lifering under his arm & a permanent Red danger flag flying may cover them on that one ,,
, after all as the old saying goes. The best lifeguard is the one that keeps dry & doesent get his feet wet !

[DGR]

I don't believe that there is any liability for anyone. We've had yellow marker buoys out at our beach for years (although not this year for some reason) to separate swimmers from boats - but no lifeguards.

We have a seasonal beach patrol (not allowed to go into the water) - which allows the beach to get it's 'Blue Flag' status (ticks the box for provision of first aid etc) - but if anything happens in the water, it's the inshore lifeboat that sorts it out.

Unfortunately a child drowned in the surf a couple of years ago - but it wasn't deemed the council's problem/fault/responsibility at all.