Your outboard catches fire. What would you do?

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by codprawn

Funny how the fire brigade always manage to put burning cars out with plain water..........

i.e. Professionals wearing protective gear and the benefit of endless training together with high pressure, high flow hoses. Slightly different to chucking a bucket of water

[Poly]

If you're not sure why you would disconnect the fuel supply - take 100 mL of petrol to a very open space put it in an appropriate container (say an old paint tin) and light it (actually thats harder than the "movies" would have you believe)... Once you see the height of the flames, feel the heat and smoke etc - and how long a little fuel takes to burn out - ask yourself if you want to be on a small boat with 200-2000x as much!

Bigmuz has a point about spills - but thats probably the only thing that the dry powder fire extinguisher we all carry would actually be useful for. I connect and disconnect my tanks every trip and have never had more than one or two drips from the fitting.

Not sure with a bucket you will actually get much water where its needed without removing the cowal. On my PB2 course the instructor suggested that a wet jacket could be used like a fire blanket.

[Bigmuz7]

Most of our thoughts are/will be based on a collective assumption of an average rib set up, many of which wont have a fire extinguisher on board, so what would most of you peeps do ? ,.. sit staring at it and phone the cg.... and wait for the whole boat to go up ,..or do something about it like douse it with water. I know fine well that there are categories of fire that are best served with certain responses, but in the middle of the sea, when you very least expect it ,..get the can out and save your hull so atleast after your electrics have fused you can get your radio working and make that call

[Nos4r2]

When did you last get onboard a boat that didn't have a fire extinguisher? I've always regarded having one as essential as a compass.

You make a good point though-I guess you've got to do something-it's just trying not to make the problem worse when doing so.

I like Polwart's suggestion of a wet jacket as a fire blanket.

[Leapy]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

...so what would most of you peeps do ?

Here's what I think I would do assuming it's an outboard fire and having watched the RNLI videos...

* Assume control
* Get the crew as far away as possible (that could be in the boat or out of it - to the upstream or to the side of it - depending on the circumstances of fire and sea state)
* Send a MayDay alert through the handheld or fixed radio if still working
* If safe to do so, tackle the fire with the fire extinguisher/fire blanket
* If safe to do so, disconnect the battery
* If safe to do so, deploy the sea drogue from the front to keep the smoke and flames downstream of any crew members still on board
* Work on the basis that the survival of the crew is paramount, the survival of the boat is irrelevant

[spartacus]

I've got a small powder extinguisher. On deployment - there's probably not much more than 8-10 seconds before it's exhausted. Not long then.

I would have thought outboard engine fires are relatively scarce. What could be more of an issue is for smokers onboard. If you're out fishing with a smoker - it's only a matter of time before they want to light up.

Unfortunately my brother smokes, and I've seen him light up when we've been out fishing. Apart from being paranoid that we're in an inflatable RIB, there's also the 50 litres of fuel on board!!!

To go back to the original question - I think prevention is better than the cure. A petrol or engine fire would be as problematic on land as it is on water - without the security of being able to retreat from the fire.

My tuppence worth... keep a well-maintained engine. Check fuel hoses regularly and repair as required. Fuel containers to be properly sealed or vented (when in use) and look at location. Ideally no smoking while at sea.

[Nos4r2]

I posted the same question on a fishing forum. Here's some of the responses from one particular guy when another member suggested putting a plugged hole in their cowl to discharge an extinguisher through (this was after he rambled on about complying with the British Waterways safety scheme) :-

when an outboard is running it draws air through the cowling

when a fire starts beneath the cowling the hole in which oxygen is drawn in would act like the exhaust for the fire thus not alowing much oxygen in to keep the fire going

but dont you think that the manurfacturers think of fire when designing out boards thousand of pounds is spent on setting them alight and seeing what happens

its like cars when they see smoke coming from under the bonnet it only flared up when the bonnet was lifted

another safety factor that gets ingnored

After asking him directly twice, he answered the original question with:-

i would tilt the engine and spray the extinguisher into the air intake and thus extinguish the fire

So, he's putting the point he's spraying the extinguisher in at the highest point where it'll be hardest to reach the fire and any burning fuel under his cowl could well be running out into the boat..

[AVONMON]

Question how susceptible are dry powder co2 driven extinguishers to powder compaction/dampness on boats ? I had a B.C.F powder extinguisher in a rally car that failed to go off due to powder compaction when needed.

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by AVONMON

Question how susceptible are dry powder co2 driven extinguishers to powder compaction/dampness on boats ? I had a B.C.F powder extinguisher in a rally car that failed to go off due to powder compaction when needed.

That's frightening. Was it in date?

[AVONMON]

Yes it was & had a signed sticky label aswel & had been scrutineered.Believe B.C.F not in favour now due to carcinogenic potential and compaction problems.But what is the status with non professional use supplied boat extinguishers that we all seem to buy for @ £30 fit in our forard consuls and a wave tingling vessel called a R.I.B.

[Poly]

Originally Posted by spartacus

A petrol or engine fire would be as problematic on land as it is on water - without the security of being able to retreat from the fire.

No (a) as you say you can walk away on land; (b) you can get round all sides of the engine to fight it easily; (c) fire brigade response time on land will normally be less than the RNLI's; (d) fire service much more experienced at putting out fires than the RNLI, and with much wider range of kit.

[9D280]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

So, he's putting the point he's spraying the extinguisher in at the highest point where it'll be hardest to reach the fire and any burning fuel under his cowl could well be running out into the boat..

...and this assumes that your PT relays haven't melted themselves to a random collection of strips of metal in a plastic puddle, or if like most manual tilt engines the air intake is the same hole you need to put your fingers in to lift it! Does he happen to have an asbestos glove to hand?!

I do wonder if a remote release CO2 could be used, permanently plumbed in, bottle strapped to the transom? You'd need a biggish or high pressure cyl - most of the volume of the cowl will need expelled & replaced with the CO2 for it to work......


As for the bucket of water, the big issue I could see there is the burning fuel getting washed overboard (or worse still, back into the boat) & causing more problems than the relatively compact fire in the engine....

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by AVONMON

Question how susceptible are dry powder co2 driven extinguishers to powder compaction/dampness on boats ?

Very.

Ideally, you take the thing and smack it on a block of wood a few times once a month to keep the powder loose (smaller ones, you can feel the powder sloshing back and forth when you shake it. Don't know about larger ones.)

jky

[jyasaki]

Originally Posted by Bigmuz7

I dont see why throwing water at it would be so bad

Depends on the cause of the fire, and what's actually burning (which would be difficult to determine at the time, I'd think.)

If the fire is due to, say, an electrical problem igniting non-petroleum combustible material, water *may* get the burning material below ignition temperature, in which case you're golden (assuming you isolate the ignition source from the initial problem.)

But, if the burning material is gas or oil, throwing water on it causes it to splash wherever the force of the water takes it, and it usually keeps burning. Effect is something like a napalm air strike. The degree of effect, of course, depends on how much petroleum stuff is around, but in general, it's not a good idea, especially on a RIB.

Also, to get access to the base of the fire to throw water on it, you'd need to remove the cowling (assuming outboard), which will fuel the fire with oxygen (not a good thing.)

My $.02;

jky

[chewy]

Originally Posted by Polwart

No (a) as you say you can walk away on land; (b) you can get round all sides of the engine to fight it easily; (c) fire brigade response time on land will normally be less than the RNLI's; (d) fire service much more experienced at putting out fires than the RNLI, and with much wider range of kit.

The RNLI is for saving lives at sea, not putting out fires.
If we have a fire on an Atlantic the important thing is to leave the engine running and disconnect the fuel supply if you can and fire the CO2 extinguisher into the running engine until it dies.

The only time I've been on a RIB on fire was with a RYA instructor in Poole, the outboard flashed back through the carbs with flames licking out the hood, funniest thing I've seen two lads cupping water up and splashing it. Credit to em it went out.

[Bigmuz7]

Well I think these fires are a little more common than people think (not trying to scare monger ) I certainly know of two people its happened to. I've looked out an extinguisher similar to the one I carry in my truck, which I will be fitting before I start my season this year Question is .. which is the best kind then, fellas ? CO2 or powder .. I have access to any type as I use a company called Asco to supply/check all my workshop and office ones

[rickuk3]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

Very.

Ideally, you take the thing and smack it on a block of wood a few times once a month to keep the powder loose (smaller ones, you can feel the powder sloshing back and forth when you shake it. Don't know about larger ones.)

jky

I do that once a month with all the small extinquisher on my boats and with the large ones on the passenger boat I do the same and roll them around on the deck for a bit. Seems to work ok.
Richard

[Poly]

Originally Posted by chewy

The RNLI is for saving lives at sea, not putting out fires.

I wasn't disputing that - hence why I would rather have a fire in my engine when its on the trailer or jetty where the fire service can put it out than at sea. An earlier post had suggested that there was no real difference.

[m chappelow]

i heard the rnli have not been allowed to fight fires for a number of years,the only reason crews go on fire fighting courses are part of the health and safety for the offshore boats, i think most people would have a problem with trying to squirt an extiguisher into the air intake of an outboard hood as most have a foam backing or they are baffled , though you might prise out a rubber grommet and try squirting it into that ,though as some one said previously a coat soaked in water wrapped around may be as good ,and dont forget if you have had an engine fire and its out and you need help dont set it off again when letting off flares , regards mart

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by jyasaki

But, if the burning material is gas or oil, throwing water on it causes it to splash wherever the force of the water takes it, and it usually keeps burning. Effect is something like a napalm air strike. The degree of effect, of course, depends on how much petroleum stuff is around, but in general, it's not a good idea, especially on a RIB.

Also, to get access to the base of the fire to throw water on it, you'd need to remove the cowling (assuming outboard), which will fuel the fire with oxygen (not a good thing.)

My $.02;

jky

Well plain water worked well enough on a car and a motorbike - the motorbike was dripping burning fuel on the road - 2 x 2L water bottles were all that was needed.

I agree that you really need to remove the cowl which is not a good idea but that is the same for most types of extinguishers.

Providing the fuel supply has been shut off there isn't that much to burn anyway - just some wiring and the cowl itself although a 2 stroke oil resevoir could cause a problem.